New Penalties

[Genesis]

OK... so there has been a lot of bitching about the increase to penalties and suspensions and how that will not work. What about some real ideas about how and what will work to reduce the road toll! We seem to have many "professionals" out there that "know" these increases will not work, so what will.... Moreover, I do not mean ridiculous ideas like lifting the speed limits to autobahn style or stopping high-speed chases etc... I mean real ideas that will save mums, dads, brothers and sisters lives.

[vk6hgr]

Moreover, I do not mean ridiculous ideas like lifting the speed limits to autobahn style

Why is that idea so bad? The great idea with the autobahn isn't the speed limit - it's the well engineered roads that they're made of. Any road which has two-way traffic travelling at more than 80-90Km/hr without a divider is just dangerous - but we still build roads like that and they're among our most dangerous!

If we're going to discuss road toll, accidents, injuries etc and ways to prevent them, we need access to some good statistics. Anyone know of any that we can use?

In my opinion there are far better ways to reduce "road toll" (deaths, injuries, accidents) than broadly increasing fines. Ideas just off the top of my head:

• - More police on the roads
  - Get road trains out of suburban areas
  - More high quality, better engineered roads
  - More drugs and alcohol testing
  - Life-long driver testing and education. A drivers license is a responsibility, not a rite of passage. So, a licensing system that doesn't stop at P plates and begin again when drivers turn 70

Yes, most of these are expensive and/or difficult. But if the government was really interested in reducing road trauma these would be good places to start.

[lytec]

for a start i reckon get rid of extraordinary licences.This is a crap idea.If people really need a license for work etc then they would make sure they wouldn't lose it.i work at the airport doing shift work and have no access to public transport.I make sure I always follow the road rules as I cant afford to lose my license.Also I just know it is the right thing to do.If people were more accountable for their actions then they may think twice.

[danny]

Will the higher penalties / longer seizure periods, mean more people will run from Police?

Iv seen people get done for 180/80 zone, 100 kph over the limit and they get a $600 fine and 6 months suspension. WEAK.

Beefing up the fines is good, but the suspension periods need to be doubled.

Also driving under suspension should mean your car gets seized for 28 days, just like New Zealand.

Just my 2 cents worth, and i aggree, more coppers on the road would definately help reduce the road toll, however its finding the extra coppers. Guys out on the front line are doing a excelent job, keep up the good work.

[vk6hgr]

Beefing up the fines is good, but the suspension periods need to be doubled.

And people will just take the chance and drive while suspended.

[Cameron]

Will the higher penalties / longer seizure periods, mean more people will run from Police?

I guarantee it.

What about some real ideas about how and what will work to reduce the road toll!

Driver training.

Look at the finding published by the ORS. Read them, end to end. Take the time to look at the numbers and see what's going on.

The increase in fatalities is attributed, quite god-damn clearly, to single vehicle collisions with a stationary object on long, featureless roads. People are falling asleep and running into trees. The research clearly shows this, but somehow it's "hoons" that are the real danger?

If people drove within their limits and took more time preparing themselves and understanding how hard long distance driving can be, we'd see a decrease in rural fatalities again. As long as the ORS keep bashing this retarded "Hoons ams a menace!" bullshit, we'll get absolutely nowhere.

We seem to have many "professionals" out there that "know" these increases will not work,

I'm telling you now, if I was doing, say, 30 over the limit on the freeway in the middle of the night and a patrol car passed in the opposite direction, it wouldn't be an easy choice to pull over. A lot of people are currently moving towards that mindset.

The punishment does not fit the crime at all. If I do 90kph on the back wheel through a school zone while buses are being unloaded, I'm a retard and should get a boot up the ass. If I'm doing 140 on the freeway with no other traffic, smooth riding and no erratic or foolish behaviour, then who the hell is harmed? What's the crime? Danger of little old ladies crossing a fenced, major thoroughfare with their dogs at midnight? Nobody is harmed by sensible driving / riding, and speeding alone does not make driving / riding dangerous. Speed that is inappropriate to the road conditions is dangerous, not the speed in itself.

so what will....

Again, driver training. Couple some real training with a police presence in real blackspots (not speed cameras plonked out in perfect pieces of blacktop) and you'll see a difference made. This really isn't rocket science, it's common sense.

[Tyranus]

The increase in fatalities is attributed, quite god-damn clearly, to single vehicle collisions with a stationary object on long, featureless roads. People are falling asleep and running into trees.

You're right this is due to driver concentration. Not necessarily not concentrating at all but concentrating too hard. They get focused on the tree and so head towards it. Going through shire of lake grace I was impressed with their signs the had a series of about 4 signs before and after the shire, advising you to wave as everyone there would wave. This helps to ensure drivers are kept awake and thinking. Signs like this should become common. Pull off stops have more shade and cover from the road.

[Cameron]

Signs like this should become common. Pull off stops have more shade and cover from the road.

Good ideas, something to keep people awake, on the look out rather than just zoning out.

A big problem is the 'invincible' mentality too, or just thinking you'll go another few minutes before stopping for a rest.

We should be encouraging people not just to pull over in rest areas, but anywhere they're feeling drowzy. I've stopped for a quick nap in all kinds of areas in the past and I'll sure as hell do it again. I'd rather look like a goose napping on a roadside than not get to where I need to be at all.

[Genesis]

Ok... vk6hgr you may have misunderstood me slightly.
I am not saying that the autobahn is dangerous and those speeds are dangerous... what I am saying is that we don't have those kinds of roads here and our drivers are far from experienced to drive under those conditions. I, like many here, am happy to travel at those speeds if the conditions prevail... but let’s face it... they don't and the Government will not be building roads of that style in the near future.

I do like some of the other ideas you put forward. That is what I am looking for... Some things we can take to our local MP's for them to consider introducing through Parliament. It is a start to the future. I honestly believe the Government has no idea how to solve the road toll and are fixed on the idea of hit one... hit em all. I believe they should be specifically targeting the idiots who do travel in hoon mode everywhere and not just mum and dad going to work or the shops. The Sunday Times recently had an article with statistics that showed the entire road toll from last year. Surprisingly... The seriously injured ones and fatal ones were not the young 'P' platers or under 25's... it was actually the 30 - 39 bracket, so why is motor vehicle insurance so expensive for the young ones. To me, that is just a cop out to charge lots of extra bucks for insurance.
[/code]

[Genesis]

I strongly agree with more Police presence, as do so many others, so why don't the Governemt do something about that. How about reforming the RTA like the good ol' days.

What about the Governement getting tough on the court system. It is one thing for the Governemt to create all these massive higher new penalties... things like infringement notices which are paid without a court system, but what about the courts actually being made to introduce and hand down those tough penalties mandatorily.

[danny]

Beefing up the fines is good, but the suspension periods need to be doubled.

And people will just take the chance and drive while suspended.

No doubt, but then seize the cars for 28 days.

That way they cant drive it whilst its locked up at the local holding yard

[Cameron]

No doubt, but then seize the cars for 28 days.

That way they cant drive it whilst its locked up at the local holding yard

This is akin to locking up fat peoples cutlery.

[Schism_]

No doubt, but then seize the cars for 28 days.

That way they cant drive it whilst its locked up at the local holding yard

This is akin to locking up fat peoples cutlery.

Fat people use cutlery?

[Tyranus]

No doubt, but then seize the cars for 28 days.

That way they cant drive it whilst its locked up at the local holding yard

This is akin to locking up fat peoples cutlery.

Fat people use cutlery?

Yeah I was gonna say, I've never heard of cutlery at McCrap.

Genesis, I think the government struggles with police presence because of one main thing, for the crap and scum that these guys have to put up with they don't pay enough, that was the big issue last year, and despite people leaving the force they still could not increase the pay to what the union wanted. Which may have then helped getting more recruits and thus a larger police presence. Although it's not the hot topic anymore these days, I think that may be part of the issue for some people?? Then again I don't recall hearing what happened in the end with the 10% increase request...did it eventuate??

[Genesis]

Tyranus... Yes, an agreement was made between the Police Union and the members. It was not really what the members wanted, but it was pretty good. It also leaves the ground open for them to fight for more the next time their EBA is due for renewal. As far as your comments, I really could not agree with you more. You are right, spot on and have hit the nail on the head...

I wonder how the "hoons" would feel if they were made to pay for the damage, they cause to the roads when they do burnouts... and on top of the hoon legislation (reckless driving charge) they get a criminal charge of damage. Do you reckon that would reduce the amount of burnouts and wheel spinning activities