WA Radio Scanner Users' Group

Done... the thread is here. I've started with the light tankers, will await comments etc before adding the 1.4, then 2.4 and 3.4 and so on.

we have one "wa bush fire appliances"

Dont ask me... heard today that singleton got theres up to 140km/h when they first got it- i know who the driver was but i wont name names.

Fastlane wrote:Gotta ask too.. wtf was the driver in the 2.4 U thinking, getting it 'up to 135kph' ? Just plain dangerous.. and will get you a reckless driving charge if you get caught!

Why would he get a reckless driving charge if he was going fire call? I'm not being smart just curious as to what the law is with fireies going fire call conditions.

rambler318 wrote:

Fastlane wrote:Gotta ask too.. wtf was the driver in the 2.4 U thinking, getting it 'up to 135kph' ? Just plain dangerous.. and will get you a reckless driving charge if you get caught!

Why would he get a reckless driving charge if he was going fire call? I'm not being smart just curious as to what the law is with fireies going fire call conditions.

Going firecall doesn't give you ownership of the road.. From the Road Traffic Code 2000

281. Exemption for drivers of emergency vehicles (other)
A provision of these regulations does not apply to the driver of
an emergency vehicle that is not being used for official duties
by a police officer if —
(a) in the circumstances —
(i) the driver is taking reasonable care; and
(ii) it is reasonable that the provision should not
apply;
and
(b) the vehicle is a motor vehicle that is moving and the
vehicle is displaying a blue or red flashing light or
sounding an alarm.

I think you'd struggle to say 135kph in a ~12 tonne truck is 'reasonable'. When it comes to the crunch, a little bit more speed isnt worth it, particularly if you don't end up making it to the call at all..

I think if you check FESA policy you will also find you will have NO backing or insurance if you happen to cause a crash or get caught speeding. I have done the FESA driving under operational conditions course and it is Quite specific about speeding .It is not condoned. As they say on the course "more fire fighters have been killed getting to the fire than fighting them" .It is hard to fight the excitement of going to a fire and having the beacons and sirens going but proper training will help.

Fastlane wrote:

rambler318 wrote:

Fastlane wrote:Gotta ask too.. wtf was the driver in the 2.4 U thinking, getting it 'up to 135kph' ? Just plain dangerous.. and will get you a reckless driving charge if you get caught!

Why would he get a reckless driving charge if he was going fire call? I'm not being smart just curious as to what the law is with fireies going fire call conditions.

Going firecall doesn't give you ownership of the road.. From the Road Traffic Code 2000

281. Exemption for drivers of emergency vehicles (other)
A provision of these regulations does not apply to the driver of
an emergency vehicle that is not being used for official duties
by a police officer if —
(a) in the circumstances —
(i) the driver is taking reasonable care; and
(ii) it is reasonable that the provision should not
apply;
and
(b) the vehicle is a motor vehicle that is moving and the
vehicle is displaying a blue or red flashing light or
sounding an alarm.

I think you'd struggle to say 135kph in a ~12 tonne truck is 'reasonable'. When it comes to the crunch, a little bit more speed isnt worth it, particularly if you don't end up making it to the call at all..

So it is more of an individual interpretation as to what is reasonable. Is 135kph in a 100 zone too much different to doing 85 in a 50kph zone? I think it may be more horses for courses than plainly putting a definitive limit on what is or is not acceptable when it does not really apply. After all a 12t truck doing 35kph above the posted speed limit of any road could seem excessive to some. I believe it comes down to many factors including driver ability, road and traffic conditions ect.

rambler318 wrote:So it is more of an individual interpretation as to what is reasonable. Is 135kph in a 100 zone too much different to doing 85 in a 50kph zone? I think it may be more horses for courses than plainly putting a definitive limit on what is or is not acceptable when it does not really apply. After all a 12t truck doing 35kph above the posted speed limit of any road could seem excessive to some. I believe it comes down to many factors including driver ability, road and traffic conditions ect.

To cut to the chase, trucks arent designed to do such high speeds, moreso with such an unstable load as a tank of water. The 2.4's, 3'4s etc are just standard trucks with standard brakes etc.

(and sort of off topic, but sort of on.. the light tankers are no better - the larger trucks will stop quicker)

The interpretation isnt down to the driver.. its down to a Police Officer and Court, should it make it that far.

Simply put, its plain stupid - any reasonable person would think so.. and considering most of what BFB's go to are bush fires... it really isn't worth it. Consider that and the risk you put your crew at AND the general public who do NOT see you or hear you, regardless of how many flashing or noisy things you have turned on...

Driving under firecall conditions is serious business.. it certainly isnt for extending the size of your appendage or looking for 'glory'.. sadly some ppl forget this sometimes.

Nick wrote:I think if you check FESA policy you will also find you will have NO backing or insurance if you happen to cause a crash or get caught speeding. It is not condoned.

Thanks for your reply Nick but when was the last time an Emergency vehicle was given a speeding fine? I can understand FESA saying they do not condone speeding however, unless they enforce it is not an acceptable practice then they are condoning it. Who would like to be the lucky person trapped in a vehicle accident with serious injuries that dies because the emergency vehicles would not speed to get there? After all, in these emergency situations time is of the essence.

rambler318 wrote:

Nick wrote:I think if you check FESA policy you will also find you will have NO backing or insurance if you happen to cause a crash or get caught speeding. It is not condoned.

Thanks for your reply Nick but when was the last time an Emergency vehicle was given a speeding fine? I can understand FESA saying they do not condone speeding however, unless they enforce it is not an acceptable practice then they are condoning it. Who would like to be the lucky person trapped in a vehicle accident with serious injuries that dies because the emergency vehicles would not speed to get there? After all, in these emergency situations time is of the essence.

And no matter what the incident, you do NOT put yourself or your crew in danger - 4 lives arent worth risking for 1. Better off getting there later and in once piece, than not at all.

(and on FESA policy, last I saw an SOP it didnt say speeding was a no-no.. it just re-iterated what the Road Traffic Code says about taking reasonable care)

Fastlane wrote:

rambler318 wrote:

Nick wrote:I think if you check FESA policy you will also find you will have NO backing or insurance if you happen to cause a crash or get caught speeding. It is not condoned.

Thanks for your reply Nick but when was the last time an Emergency vehicle was given a speeding fine? I can understand FESA saying they do not condone speeding however, unless they enforce it is not an acceptable practice then they are condoning it. Who would like to be the lucky person trapped in a vehicle accident with serious injuries that dies because the emergency vehicles would not speed to get there? After all, in these emergency situations time is of the essence.

And no matter what the incident, you do NOT put yourself or your crew in danger - 4 lives arent worth risking for 1. Better off getting there later and in once piece, than not at all.

(and on FESA policy, last I saw an SOP it didnt say speeding was a no-no.. it just re-iterated what the Road Traffic Code says about taking reasonable care)

Fully agree with 4 lives are not worth one and the duty of care the driver has is for all his/her crew. My initial comments were more directed to what are facts and what are individual ideals. One point to note is there is a major difference in causing an accident and being involved in one.

I think that the answer lies in the one line of the code. taking reasonable care.

I think that anyone doing 35 kph over any speed limit is not taking reasonble care.

I have just completed the St johns driving cse which is two weeks with a driving company. The term reasonable care was rammed down our throat.

As has been mentioned the distance to stop an appliance is some distance. Even the polive have speed restrictions that they have to abide by and they do advanced emargency training courses not the two days ( if lucky ) that fesa gives you.

Old saying - better to arrive late than dead on time.

Our DMs and AMs have always told us that a fire call is NOT an excuse for speeding and if we get caught, we are on our own - FESA will not back us.

firefly.000 wrote:

Fastlane wrote:
(and sort of off topic, but sort of on.. the light tankers are no better - the larger trucks will stop quicker)

sure are right there fastlane. Have to be careful in the LT when following the pump cause it will outbrake the LT easily. There have been a few LT's that have gone up the back end, very embarressing for the driver.

The Pumps do have the benefit of ABS.. But even 3.4's and 2.4's will outbrake a Landcruiser...

For a good article on this, click here. From Tasmania Fire Service I believe..