advance life

Markmywords · Post by **Markmywords** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:07 am

And the what ifs" what if it fails, what if it decideds to double its compression frate haha, what happens when the battery dies in the ass.

I think i'll stick to the manual way.

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:12 am

Markmywords wrote:And the what ifs" what if it fails, what if it decideds to double its compression frate haha, what happens when the battery dies in the ass.

I think i'll stick to the manual way.

A good concept however not really tested. I think manual CPR is the best option. However at 24000+ for each unit is it really worth it!!.. Once they have finished trialling them. It will be interesting to see what Paramedics think of them and the true success rates.

After all ECG's are similar, they are great and all however a set of Basic Vital signs & Primary Examination can often provide a more accurate out look. Especially in bumpy rides in the back of the Ambulance. [ECG says 325bpm however person seems adequately perfused has a regular pulse].

Has anyone come across defibs that say Shock Patient and they have perfectly normal vitals.. ???. Might make your patient angry

So technology is great however manual intervention and assessment should take top priority..

Post by **gkoutlis** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:28 am

Definatley agree with all of what you say here guys - alot of what if's and I don't think that they will ever bring an Automatic CPR machine to do Cardiac Compressions on someone. It is a silly fantasy... really - when you think about it.

In the First Aid courses - they usually get you to do a fitness test of either 5mins or 10mins... - But as some of you know, I assisted in a resuss last year - and it went on for well over 30mins - rotating every 2mins.

No machine will match the adrenaline that a person gets when it is a full-scale emergency... There are alot of Positives about manual CPR and not a single positive in favour of the machine performing Cardiac compressions.. Will be interesting to see a company blow millions of dollars to try and make it work.... They should put money towards worthy research and study to help Paramedics, First Aiders, Hospitals etc - to better understand the concepts of CPR - including techniques - so the stats can one day show that a person doing CPR on someone can give a unconcious non-breathing person a 90% chance of surviving.

Just my 2 cents worth.

munchkin1981 · Post by **munchkin1981** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:26 am

i agree with ur 2cents

Herpes · Post by **Herpes** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:53 pm

Eventually during C.P.R, E.A.R may disappear. Studies have been done to show that arterial blood gases (abg's) can be similar for a patient that has only received cardiac compressions, as apposed to a person who has received C.P.R including E.A.R.

This is apparently due to the fact that between cycles, seconds are wasted.

The jury is out, but if perfusion is same, and outcomes are similar, what have we been doing all this time. Just as well we evolve in this industry and can move on if it is what is best for patient outcomes.

If you are doing just Cardiac compressions I believe that we would be doing them more effectively as apposed to concentrating on airways. Get to a hospital and let them worry bout airways etc....

If you are 10 minutes out from a hospital, too many people stay and play. They introduce ETT's and set up IV's and perform other invasive procedures. 25 minutes later, arriving at the hospital, can pass off a stone cold corpse.

Post by **gkoutlis** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:07 pm

I'm not so sure about that though - although they are talking about removing the "rescue breaths" which you give 2 of - per every 30 compressions.

But can you really take the risk to compromise the Airway - just for the sake of CPR? - Isn't CPR more effective if you have a clear airway and good compressions which are 3rd of the way in depth and kept at a constant rate - which i think is 100 compressions per minute???

Don't think I'd be compromising a patient's airway just to do compressions only.... but I'd like to hear everyones input, ideas and views as this is an open topic.

Markmywords · Post by **Markmywords** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:07 pm

Herpes wrote: If you are 10 minutes out from a hospital, too many people stay and play. They introduce ETT's and set up IV's and perform other invasive procedures. 25 minutes later, arriving at the hospital, can pass off a stone cold corpse.

VIC is a classic example of doing this depending on the circumstances-have been in a 30 min plus resus with a micaand road crew plus clinical support officer all hands on with the alfread not even 10 mins away.

Markmywords · Post by **Markmywords** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:09 pm

Only found out today that first intervention have an office in fremantle so thankgod a PROFESSIONAL training company.

The whole alas/medic one fingers in each others desert wont have to be a worry anymore

you can get trained by a professional organisation the first time without having to worry if the instructors will fail you if you work for another provider.

Herpes · Post by **Herpes** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:27 pm

gkoutlis wrote:I'm not so sure about that though - although they are talking about removing the "rescue breaths" which you give 2 of - per every 30 compressions.

But can you really take the risk to compromise the Airway - just for the sake of CPR? - Isn't CPR more effective if you have a clear airway and good compressions which are 3rd of the way in depth and kept at a constant rate - which i think is 100 compressions per minute???

Don't think I'd be compromising a patient's airway just to do compressions only.... but I'd like to hear everyones input, ideas and views as this is an open topic.

You are absolutely correct, airway must be maintained. Its just an interesting thought of where we will be in 5 years from now.

Markmywords · Post by **Markmywords** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:38 pm

5 years from now defibs in every home and if you end up Code 90 you can be buried in your own backyard lol

Herpes · Post by **Herpes** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:24 pm

Markmywords wrote:5 years from now defibs in every home and if you end up Code 90 you can be buried in your own backyard lol

As long as I get a code 69 in the bedroom I'm all happy

lol

Herpes · Post by **Herpes** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:27 pm

PFO - spelt POOF

Must be having technique difficulties, oops technical difficulties as I have not seen him on for many hours. Either that or he found those damn PORN sites. Never to be seen again

munchkin1981 · Post by **munchkin1981** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:49 pm

Herpes wrote:Eventually during C.P.R, E.A.R may disappear. Studies have been done to show that arterial blood gases (abg's) can be similar for a patient that has only received cardiac compressions, as apposed to a person who has received C.P.R including E.A.R.

This is apparently due to the fact that between cycles, seconds are wasted.

The jury is out, but if perfusion is same, and outcomes are similar, what have we been doing all this time. Just as well we evolve in this industry and can move on if it is what is best for patient outcomes.

If you are doing just Cardiac compressions I believe that we would be doing them more effectively as apposed to concentrating on airways. Get to a hospital and let them worry bout airways etc....

If you are 10 minutes out from a hospital, too many people stay and play. They introduce ETT's and set up IV's and perform other invasive procedures. 25 minutes later, arriving at the hospital, can pass off a stone cold corpse.

they don't teach EAR any more

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:30 pm

Markmywords wrote:Only found out today that first intervention have an office in fremantle so thankgod a PROFESSIONAL training company.

Its always good to see Healthy competition out there and alternative options. It will result in better qualifications and more value for people undertaking courses.

Plus First Intervention seems to offer longer courses would be good to see a comparison between the courses offered by the Training Institutions.

Herpes · Post by **Herpes** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:36 pm

Question 7 When performing Expired Air Resuscitation (E.A.R.) on a child (1-8yrs old), which answer describes the head tilt, what to cover, starting breaths and breath rate?

http://www.pb.unimelb.edu.au/emergency/ ... -quiz.html

It is still being taught to the medical profession.

As most first aiders are unable to find a pulse, and there is no proof that cpr can cause any damage to someone with a beating heart, This will be the teaching for these people. E.A.R will continue, as I am stuffed if I will be doing C.P.R on a patient that is showing N.S.R and is not in P.E.A.