Pirates

vk6ngs · Post by **vk6ngs** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:40 am

I see we now have the the PIRATES on D-STAR,who ever is selling the radio,s to these pirates needs to go down harder than the pirates.If they are buying them local there is only one shop that will sell to them without a licence.If they can spend all that $$$ on radios and the time to go and get them set them up ect,why cant they just get there Licence it isnt that hard.Cheers Grant vk6ngs

Post by **robbage** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:07 am

I heard Cliff say his callsign was on the D-STAR site and he doesn't have a D-STAR rig. Does the system log the rig's serial number I wonder?

vk6ngs · Post by **vk6ngs** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:22 am

No it doesnt log serial number,you have to put your callsign into radio and do few other things and your done,but who ever used cliffs callsign would have to get a email from D-STAR registration,so they would know the email address of the person that used his call.Cheers Grant vk6ngs

Post by **robbage** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:03 am

Well that's possibly a good thing, although it's pretty easy to create a throw-away email address. Echolink requires that you supply proof of current licence. Maybe D-STAR needs something similar.

vk6ngs · Post by **vk6ngs** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:17 am

I know u can create email address,they might of used one that can be traced.I agree its to easy to sign up for D-STAR,i think the prob is with the ACMA web site you can get all the info you need from there,but having to supply a copy of your licence would stop it.I dont think D-STAR has taken into account that pirates want to use it.We cant point the finger,but i think the buck stops with who ever sold the radio to them.
Cheers Grant vk6ngs

Post by **robbage** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:27 am

Hopefully they did use a regular email. I agree about the ACMA database too. I'm not sure what a rogue hopes to achieve by doing this on D-STAR. What are they going to do. If you talk to Cliff's callsign and it isn't Cliff, you're going to know

Post by **Zebedee** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:47 am

As far as I know ... and DSTAR is still mostly smoke and mirrors to me ... you wouldn't need to register for gateway access for your callsign to appear. You'd just have to program a callsign into the MYCALL field in the radio for the system to capture it.

I don't think gateway access is relevant, not for that part anyway, since my callsign shows up there:

VK6LAN P 15d23h47m12s VK6RWN C

And that was before I had done the gateway registration ...

vk6ngs wrote:We cant point the finger,but i think the buck stops with who ever sold the radio to them.

I disagree, the buck always stops with the person doing the wrong thing. As amateurs, we're all taught the right way to do things - if anyone chooses to ignore the regs, more fool them.

And if someone buys a radio without a licence ... again more fool them. I don't agree with the "show your licence to get something" idea, after all the only people who can require us to present our licence is a Radio Inspector

I'm a big believer in personal responsibility - if someone chooses to deliberately do the wrong thing, then they should be hit with the proverbial ton of bricks. But I don't agree with making life harder for the rest of us just because of a few numbskulls

Post by **robbage** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:00 am

Zebedee wrote:
vk6ngs wrote:We cant point the finger,but i think the buck stops with who ever sold the radio to them.
I disagree, the buck always stops with the person doing the wrong thing. As amateurs, we're all taught the right way to do things - if anyone chooses to ignore the regs, more fool them.

It's a tricky area... people get stabbed to death with kitchen knives. Should we blame Big W for selling them? The same can be said about firearms and I firmly support tight gun controls. But not kitchen knife controls

Post by **Zebedee** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:06 am

robbage wrote:It's a tricky area... people get stabbed to death with kitchen knives. Should we blame Big W for selling them? The same can be said about firearms and I firmly support tight gun controls. But not kitchen knife controls

True enough. But in this case, having a DSTAR capable radio isn't quite on the same scale as a firearm - but I understand the point you're making

It's also worth noting that a licenced standard or advanced amateur who is perfectly entitled to own and operate a DSTAR radio could simply change the MYCALL field to the callsign of someone else and key up the microphone. The repeater would then log that callsign has having transmitted.

My gut feeling is that's what has happened in this case. I can't imagine someone going to all the time and trouble of buying a DSTAR radio if they weren't licenced - they're expensive little beasties after all!

vk6ngs · Post by **vk6ngs** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:22 am

I agree we are all responsable for our actions,but there are those that arnt thats why we have LAWS,the ppl supplying the radio,s to the ppl to break the law are liable.If you cant stop the ppl breaking the law you go to there supply and stop them.But there are shops that put profit above everything else.When i bought my first radio i had to show my Licence or i wasnt going to be sold to me,i had no problems showing it.If your againts showing a licence to purchase a amateur radio then how are we going to stop the pirates.Yes there are other sources for them to get radios the older radios u can get anyplace,the new ones have to come from a shop,in paticular D-star,stop the shops selling to any tom dick and harry and you will go along way to stoping the pirates.
Cheers Grant vk6ngs

Post by **Zebedee** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:26 am

I still don't see how the people selling the radios are somehow liable for the actions of people using the radios illegally.

But I'm not even sure that's the issue in this case - as I said, it's a lot of money to spend on a radio if you want to go into DSTAR. That part alone makes me wonder whether it really is an unlicenced operator or whether it's someone who is licenced and is playing funny buggers by putting someone else's callsign into their radio. I'd bet 50c that's what someone's done

vk6ngs · Post by **vk6ngs** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:45 am

It was done on purpose it wasnt a mistake Doug,2 callsigns have been used by pirates on D-star they whent as far as to register those callsigns with the gateway,the ppl who,s callsigns have been used had no clue,they have no D-star radio,s and have never had them.Pirates will spend what it takes i had a UHF cber offer me $1000 for a tokyo hy power 70cm amp,i told to get %#%#%#.That shows u what they will spend.You can get on D-star for $500 which isnt alot $$.Cheers Grant vk6ngs

Post by **meg** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:55 am

vk6ngs wrote:stop the shops selling to any tom dick and harry and you will go along way to stoping the pirates.
Cheers Grant vk6ngs

Even if you stop the shops, I'm sure there are plenty of other ways for people to get hold of the gear - ebay comes to mind. Plus what about people selling second hand gear? Do they also need to see credentials to be able to sell? How do they become aware of the requirement if (as an example) it's a deceased estate?

edit: just had a look on ebay and there are _alot_ of hong kong/china sellers with gear on there! Being international, it'd be nigh on impossible to regulate!

Post by **robbage** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:00 pm

Yes Meg and some of those Hong Kong sellers have websites selling radios that don't even mention they are on the amateur band, commercial freqs and E.S. freqs

. People buying them might not even have a clue... it's just a walkie talkie. You can buy one for $40 for 2m or 70cm with free shipping. Controlling it is like trying to mop up the Indian Ocean with a roll of TP.

Post by **meg** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:13 pm

robbage wrote:Yes Meg and some of those Hong Kong sellers have websites selling radios that don't even mention they are on the amateur band, commercial freqs and E.S. freqs

It's also possible (in other countries if not Hong Kong) that using "amateur bands" without a license is ok - so then even the advertisers don't have a need to know that let alone pass the information on.

As an awareness raising thing, perhaps Aunty's Eyes could suggest a story on the news about the pirates caught here recently. Is that newsworthy?

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Pirates

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