Transperth Security and Transit Officers

[written_ficton]

Local Security employed by councils have the same powers as the rangers? I dont think so, there are some things security cannot do & need the ranger to Fulfil:

Any Jo blog can be given authority from the council to place parking tickets...

[bawds25]

Definately, i agree. Was just explaining that security officer powers can differ quite a bit. Rangers play a big part in local law enforcement and i agree they do have a great deal of power when it comes to council by-laws.

[Caddy1]

Rangers also have powers under various state legislation. Whats working at RPH Security like bawds25? Bet thats interesting!

[dazla]

I think we need to define what "arrest" actually means in relation to PTA Security Officers and PTA Authorised offers as defined under the Public Transport Authority Act and Regulations.

Arrest from a Authorised Officer or normal Security Officer as defined in the Security and Related Industries Act (or similar) have powers of arrest under the Criminal Code however the offender must be delivered in the custody of a Constable as soon as possible...thus meaning that Wilson Security do not have caged vehicles and don’t compile briefs of evidence.

A Transit Officer is a "Security Officer" as defined in the Public Transport Authority Act has the Authority to arrest a person and take them before a justice...thus meaning they can take them the City Watch House, where they will be finger printed and bailed or remanded in custody. The Transit Officer will then compile a brief of evidence which will then be prosecuted by the PTA Railway Prosecution Team.

I think a bit of common sense needs to be applied to this, it is not reasonable to think that you can just walk away from a Wilson or Chubb Security Officer without any repercussions…that would be pointless. At then end of the day we need to ensure that the matter is delt with either with infringement if the identity of the person can be confirmed or by arrest to assure the appearance of the person before the court in relation to the offence…..whatever that may be.

[charlie]

wasn't sure if this was the appropiate forum but funny story about the guy who started secureforce. He was a volunteer sherriff in America anyone can do it. So you have a look at the yankee sheriff uniforms there in lies the secureforce uniform , black with a big shiny gold star lol. So how do you train to be a secureforce guard? He shows you footage from when he was in on a 'bust' of course being a volunteer he didn' have a gun or any acutal power. sorry think it sums up how the chubbies are being trained. Blue uniform or not. Yeah it's wilsons now and chubb but same thinking! Make them think they have some real power. [-o<

[Caddy1]

Ahhh well charlie someones gotta do it and if they can't afford to train them to the standard of the Transit Officers thats the PTA's fault! But that is a funnny story I didnt realise he was a 'volunteer' sheriff I always thought he was an actual sheriff.

[charlie]

So are there only certain times when transit officers can ask for details? I was on a train commuting for work and my ticket has a slight tear up the top. The ticket was still readible and I was threatened with a fine, told that it was an offence to carry a ticket with a tear in it and had my name and address taken down. Seems a bit over the top to me! There wasn't anything wrong with it and I didn't get a fine. I checked with the customer service too the next day and they told me the ticket was ok.

Then when I went down to try and find out about a bit more by asking for the local supervisor I wasn't allowed to see him and I was asked again for my name and birth date. I happpily obliged as I don't have anything to hide but geez a bit over the top. Concentrate on catching crims! Why would they want my birth date for, as no offence was committed? Yeah they were def transit officers too/

[dazla]

It is an offence to tamper with a ticket, you will sometimes have people change the date on an old ticket or just pick one up of the floor and tear it at the date so it cant be properly read. I am certainly not saying this was the case with you however the Transit Officer can obtain your details if he suspects an offence may have been commited, the discretion to issue an infringement remains with the individual officer.

I would argue the its not a Transit Officers job to simply "catch crims" sure that is part of their job, but revenue enforcement is a core area. Every person who receives an infringement notice on the PTA network is certainly not a criminal.....well not ALL anyway

[charlie]

hehe no it was all good, the tear wasn't near any of the writing and no fine was issued I'm happy to say. I always have the right ticket but sometimes cos I travel for such a long time it gets a bit battered towards the end.

[Fireguard]

PUBLIC TRANSPORT AUTHORITY REGULATIONS 2003
Part 2 — Tickets
5. Invalid ticket
A ticket is not valid if —
(a) it is torn;
(b) it must be validated by a machine before the commencement of a journey and it has not been so validated;
(c) it is in such a condition that the printing or writing on it is not readily legible;
(d) the printing on it has been altered, added to, erased, or obliterated;
(e) the period of duration of the ticket expired before the passenger boarded the conveyance;
(f) it is not being used in accordance with any condition on which it was issued;
(g) it is used or purported to be used beyond the point for which the fare has been paid; or
(h) a current certificate or concession card is required to be held by a passenger as a condition of the use of the ticket and that certificate or concession card is not presented on demand to a driver, master, or authorised person.


The TO was correct the ticket is "Technically" invalid if it is torn, but as already stated your details were obtained and a verbal caution was issued, which is pretty much standard practice among TO's. Because even though the ticket can be classed as invalid if all the ticket details can be read, and you play the game and don't give attitude, most TO's use a bit of common sense and let it go.

The same goes for concession cards as stated in (h) you must not only have a valid concession card, but you must also PRESENT IT on demand. That is why the "I've got one, but i left it at home" excuse doesn't work. Once again if you play the game and don't give attitude most TO's will just take your details and give a verbal caution. The Revenue Protection guys on the other hand are a whole different kettle of fish.

[bawds25]

Does anyone know if Transit Officers are still appointed as Railway Police under the GRA? Just curious..

[Caddy1]

Saw the Wilson Bus Guards at Mirrabooka station today. Has anyone seen their new fluro vests with the battenburg markings like the police except in green and white not blue and white? From a short distance they look like coppers, it even confused me!!!

[bawds25]

Really? I picked up my new vest two weeks ago and got one with plain grey reflective tape on it with "transperth security" in small black writing on the back. They're so quick to change their uniforms. Its the PTA that decides what the Wilsons Transits wear though not Wilsons management, so I guess you cant blame them for trying to look like police, its the PTA that wants them to look like police. Ill try to get a photo of this new one for ya and post it in the forum. (Just an FYI - i've just signed up with Wilsons on their PTA contract... will be starting in the next couple of weeks)

Just my opinion on police etc. I think in Australia when we think about law enforcement and security we are overcome by 'tall poppy syndrome', an attitude like "what gives them the right to tell me what to do", and i believe there's a hierarchy that determines to which degree of this attitude different organizations receive from the public. Let say in WA, the hierarchy may be like: WA Police - PTA Transits - Rangers - Government Security - Private Security. The lower down the list you are, the less respect you get and the more people think "what gives them the right to tell me what to do". I think, they should all be treated quite equally, they are all law enforcement, but they just have different areas of responsibility. There doesn't have to be only ONE police force.. look at the USA, there are heaps of different police there, county, local, highway, state, federal, and they all are independent of each other. In the USA, 'security' in hospitals and other government buildings are called police rather than security, because they have more power and work in the public interest. I think in Australia, right now, we need AS MUCH POLICE AS WE CAN GET!

A dictionary definition of police: An organisation granted the legal authority to enforce the law. So, going by that definition, WA Police = police, PTA Transits = police, Wilsons Transits = police, Customs = police, Rangers = police etc.

So, when the Wilsons Transits (or PTA Transits) get uniforms that make them look like police i think that's fine cos they are by definition, police. And in practice they are too, they issue infringements and maintain public order. Sounds like police to me. So maybe we can ease up the negative attitude towards these Wilsons Transits, they are only doing their best to protect the public, same as WA Police and PTA Transits.

Thats just my thoughts on the topic folks, please dont take offence to anything ive said.

[Jones]

i agree , most security officers will get the old name of toy cops or something like that , and public transport would have the same if not more incidents then the wapol each day so transit guards should be respected as much as wapol. as for what power they have when i did my cert 3 in security in dec i was taught that i have no power other then to observe , record and report. even at the airport if someone has a weapon at the checking area all u do is press a button and let the higher authority deal with it and hand in a report.

[Caddy1]

Let say in WA, the hierarchy may be like: WA Police - PTA Transits - Rangers - Government Security - Private Security.

What? Hahaha Rangers come before Transit Officers mate LOL!!! I certainly wasnt having a dig at the wilson guys and I know its not their choice what they wear, I just found it interesting that they had gone with something so close to the police style vest. I've seen the one with the reflective grey striping, I think that must be the old one cause that was several months ago. Could I enquire what sort of extra training Wilson put you through for the role?