St John Ambulance

[Leigh]

3 ambulances just been sent towards rockingham area on a priority 1 due to "the large number of patients", i imagine we will hear about this soon on 6AR.


0120: ANR, no backup required.

[4353]

Had an sja ambo pass us tonight on a P1 when they did the siren switch went from wail to yelp then to a hi lo tone then back to wail (was definately not the phaser tone) it was one off the new mercs too.

[yorky]

So it wasn't this sound? http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=7SBZG5Gdh ... re=related

[4353]

Nah wasnt that tone i like the phaser better than the one i heard but was definatley something new.

Maybe one off the sja guys might know if its a trial tone or something new.

[4353]

Spotted the new sja response car today with LED lightbar looked pretty nice didnt get a pic no camera on me.

But G's got a pic anyways

[4353]

Did anyone here the ear bashing the Voilunteer First Aiders got at the BDO on 6PR.....

[canon]

Did anyone here the ear bashing the Voilunteer First Aiders got at the BDO on 6PR.....

heard the ? father or relative on the news this morning saying that if his daughter had been treated by a para then she would have survived as the signs and symptoms would have been picked up. Deepest sympathy to the family and volly.

I strongly believe that at least some paras be present at this type of event. Unfortunately this happens all too often where a vollys hands are tied because SJA wont train them to a higher level How does it work for cadets and other quite young vollies who have the lack of life skills and the potential for permanent emotional damage if subjected to traumatic events such as this one. ( No offence to any of you vollies out there, i just think you guys need alot more support from your organisation).

[gkoutlis]

Did anyone here the ear bashing the Voilunteer First Aiders got at the BDO on 6PR.....

heard the ? father or relative on the news this morning saying that if his daughter had been treated by a para then she would have survived as the signs and symptoms would have been picked up. Deepest sympathy to the family and volly.

I strongly believe that at least some paras be present at this type of event. Unfortunately this happens all too often where a vollys hands are tied because SJA wont train them to a higher level How does it work for cadets and other quite young vollies who have the lack of life skills and the potential for permanent emotional damage if subjected to traumatic events such as this one. ( No offence to any of you vollies out there, i just think you guys need alot more support from your organisation).

With all due respect here canon - I am one of them, and we are not Paramedics, we are Volunteer First Aiders. If you did read today's newspaper - Page 11 - on the bottom of the article, it clearly states, that other paramedics would have done the same as what our guys did, and that was discharge the person IF the patient felt better. If they were lied to, it's not the Volunteer's fault, we can't keep people if they do not want further medical assistance.

I think the line needs to be drawn, that it's not OUR training that's at fault here - nothing is. We are trained correctly and we refresh our skills every year. The media, need to UNDERSTAND that shifting blame will not help bring the girl back, as devistated as I was to hear about this - I think they need to look at WHY she had ecstasy tablets in her possesion in the first place!!!!!!

It's so disheartening, and so upsetting, that WE volunteer OUR time for free, We get trainned with the latest standards, guidelines and procedures, and have NOT COME ACROSS anyone WHO has breached this!! - This is a slap in the face, for people who have stepped forward, and decided to help the community and this is what happens, we get blammed for the death of somone who was IRRESPONSIBLE enough to take illegal drugs.... It's very upsetting. As long as OUR Volunteers do their absolute best, WITHIN their area of qualification, then, that is GOOD enough for the rest of us!
*end rant*
G

[Zebedee]

I think the first mistake is giving any credence to what I assume was a talkback rabble on 6PR and the usual chest beating and calls for "it's just not good enough."

If a person makes the choice to ingest large quantities of illegal drugs, then to my way of thinking, the blame for the outcome lies in one direction only. The culture of "not my fault" and trying to shift the blame onto someone or something else is a scourge that needs to be stopped.

People need to start taking a bit more responsibility for themselves, and not looking for someone else to blame when things go wrong. The SJA first aiders are there to help the people who need it, not to take overall responsibility for their lives. If that young person had chosen not to swallow all those drugs, then she'd still be alive today. If she'd chosen not to even have the drugs in the first place (how's that for a radical thought?), she'd still be alive today.

Cause and effect can be a powerful thing.

[4353]

Hey G i understand where you coming from and it is ONLY a small minority off "Paramedics at SJA" who love to put down both the First Aid Operations guys and Volunteer A/O's.

You can only treat what you see and what you get told and deal with it within your training your guidlines and you cant force or make any patient get further help and chances are she wouldnt have anyway.

I have to laugh that nearly they say "volunteer paramedics" BUT maybe its something that they should do allow some "talented" senior first aiders get to that level and not at the expense off that person.

In times off grief they like to blame someone just unfortunate that the Step Dad is a paramedic if he had of been joe blow i doubt it would even have been brought up. The SJA MD made a statement on radio today saying that even a paramedic crew would not have been able to assist her further as she was a "rare case"

Personal opinion BDO, Royal Show, even at stretch the skysky one paramedic crew should be based on site permanetly but of course its a $ factor most event organisers dont like to cough up to pay that extra cash.

The first aid ops guys do a good job, volunteer time put up with abuse at some events, i dont think his comments were called for anyway.

[canon]

Did anyone here the ear bashing the Voilunteer First Aiders got at the BDO on 6PR.....

heard the ? father or relative on the news this morning saying that if his daughter had been treated by a para then she would have survived as the signs and symptoms would have been picked up. Deepest sympathy to the family and volly.

I strongly believe that at least some paras be present at this type of event. Unfortunately this happens all too often where a vollys hands are tied because SJA wont train them to a higher level How does it work for cadets and other quite young vollies who have the lack of life skills and the potential for permanent emotional damage if subjected to traumatic events such as this one. ( No offence to any of you vollies out there, i just think you guys need alot more support from your organisation).

With all due respect here canon - I am one of them, and we are not Paramedics, we are Volunteer First Aiders. If you did read today's newspaper - Page 11 - on the bottom of the article, it clearly states, that other paramedics would have done the same as what our guys did, and that was discharge the person IF the patient felt better. If they were lied to, it's not the Volunteer's fault, we can't keep people if they do not want further medical assistance.

I think the line needs to be drawn, that it's not OUR training that's at fault here - nothing is. We are trained correctly and we refresh our skills every year. The media, need to UNDERSTAND that shifting blame will not help bring the girl back, as devistated as I was to hear about this - I think they need to look at WHY she had ecstasy tablets in her possesion in the first place!!!!!!

It's so disheartening, and so upsetting, that WE volunteer OUR time for free, We get trainned with the latest standards, guidelines and procedures, and have NOT COME ACROSS anyone WHO has breached this!! - This is a slap in the face, for people who have stepped forward, and decided to help the community and this is what happens, we get blammed for the death of somone who was IRRESPONSIBLE enough to take illegal drugs.... It's very upsetting. As long as OUR Volunteers do their absolute best, WITHIN their area of qualification, then, that is GOOD enough for the rest of us!
*end rant*
G

Sorry G your statement is spot on but there are many instances where people could have been saved if paramedics were present on scene and able to give definitive Rx . Vollies play a very important role in the community but that role should always be a supportive one to the Paras. Was not aware that Pt refused Rx in the above case so apologies once again.

[Tyranus]

Well put both GKoutlis and Zebedee.
Blame was put also on the police sniffer dogs presence for her taking them. We were chatting at work and we acknowledge that maybe if the dogs hadn't been there she wouldn't have had them in one hit. Reality is though they've been there for a number of years, if she'd let herself be caught or disposed of the drugs, or better yet never bought them, then she would be better off today.
If no one took drugs to the BDO, and there was only reasonable amounts of alcohol involved, or even with the copious amounts that do get drunk there, the St. John's first aiders are more than capable of handling the situation. It's peoples stupidity that gets in the way of their hard work!

I'm a firm believer of taking responsiblities for ones actions. When I got caught speeding, the only person I was angry with was myself for letting something as trivial as being a bit late for something to start speeding. In a way I thanked the camera for being there it reminded me that there are other things going on outside the car as I normally would have seen the sign and camera.
Families also need to realise that no one is perfect, and occasionally we make stupid mistakes. Unfortunately some have disasterous consequences. If someone dies in a car accident such as a car vs. tree after drink driving and speeding, then the family needs to accept that while the member of the family was a good person, they did something incredibly stupid, and that the SJA paramedics, Fire and rescue, and any other bystanders that tried to assist prior to professional medical and rescue assistance arriving has tried their best.

[SJANT]

Just to shed some light on things for those who don't know I am a St. John First Aid Volunteer with 8 years experience, a nurse and a ambulance officer/will be a paramedic within the next 3 months. I can tell you in the instance of an ecstacy overdose there is nothing a Paramedic crew could do for this patient except to treat them symptomatically. The only extra's that could've been done by a crew is IV access and advanced airway management if needed then priority 1 into hospital. Nothing more, perhaps Naloxone if indicated and she had respiratory depression just incase she had ingested narcotic agents too. As career ambulance staff i can't think of any more that could've been done in my scope of practice for this girl.

A doctor there wouldn't have been able to do any more even if they had all the equipment with them. If she's altered conscious state it's maintain an airway, breathing and circulation. A paramedic crew wouldn't have made a difference. Feel free to PM me if you care to differ. In the Australian First Aid book which is used by VFAS the only treatment for drug misuse is DRABCD.

It's sometimes hard enough to get enough road staff to cover the normal workload let alone have one crew try to cover a special event like the show or BDO. I'll be you $10,000 there were Health Care Professionals there at BDO with VFAS, either Dr's, nurses or paramedics and there are a number of paramedics who are members of VFAS. It does come down to dollars but as a volunteer who has been to many of these events as either a health care professional or an area co-ordinator i know for a fact that we are able to handle 99% of cases that present and provide good supportive treatment till they can be evac'd to a hospital via ambulance. That's the role we play. Stabilise them to the best of our abilities and get them out to the first aid room to go to hospital via ambulance. A majority of the times the paramedic crew will load and go and won't need to do any further treatment to the patient except vital signs and occaisionally more pain relief that isn't available to volunteers.

I challenge anyone to provide any real life examples where VFAS has been faced with a condition that wasn't able to be at least partially if not fully stabilised because with 8 years experience across and number of states and territories i can't think of one.

End of Rant. Feel free to challenge me via PM

[search.again]

I believe in this instance that facts being Female aged 17 with Illegal drugs and no parents with her a responsible Parent or Blood Relitive should have been contacted and not discharged. Police should have been contacted as information was assertained, underage with Illegal substance ( Duty Of CARE). Then Parents would have Called and Authorities directed by Parents. Regardless If a person has taken drugs and required medical aid They should of Been transported to Hospital with in P2 catagory (within 45). This should have put as a first to do as pt requries being monitored and what place better than Hospital where can have vital obs obtained in aprofessional environment.
Police were present at the Event and should of been notified straight away. If she has refused treatment she can be taken in by Police under Protective Custody (also Duty of Care). Really The responseability should be on SJA to call Police as She was in their care.
Responsibilities and Accounts of actions should always be carred out

[gkoutlis]

I believe in this instance that facts being Female aged 17 with Illegal drugs and no parents with her a responsible Parent or Blood Relitive should have been contacted and not discharged. Police should have been contacted as information was assertained, underage with Illegal substance ( Duty Of CARE). Then Parents would have Called and Authorities directed by Parents. Regardless If a person has taken drugs and required medical aid They should of Been transported to Hospital with in P2 catagory (within 45). This should have put as a first to do as pt requries being monitored and what place better than Hospital where can have vital obs obtained in aprofessional environment.
Police were present at the Event and should of been notified straight away. If she has refused treatment she can be taken in by Police under Protective Custody (also Duty of Care). Really The responseability should be on SJA to call Police as She was in their care.
Responsibilities and Accounts of actions should always be carred out

Who are you to say such things when you don't even know half the story!
G