Firies in the Hills

WA Department of Fire and Emergency Services (6AR and 6IP) (Including the Fire Services, SES & VMRS) and Department of Biodiversity, Conservation and Attractions

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ace of spades
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Re: Firies in the Hills

Post by ace of spades » Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:27 am

Kylep, I'm not having a go at Kalamunda vollies or vollies in general but are you saying that if they put carreer staff in at a kalamunda or mundaring even for just summer, that those communities are not better off. I know that these vol stations are great in turn outs but the facts remain, getting someone mobile in less than 2 mins is better than 5-6 isn't it?

I don't know but after listening to the audio on 6PR the Kalamunda guy seemed very precious about his patch. Remember don't our taxes pay for permenant firies to go to jobs. I know a few and they say that they are not there to upset vollies but help the community as best they can. Reliance on Vollies who have other jobs needs to stop. There will always be a need for Volunteers in these areas but I just feel that having some carreer presence in these areas is better rather than worse and we vols need to embrace them and not fight against them.

I don't exactly agree totally with you wannabe, I know all vols who go to fires put the hard yards in but I do feel that every agency has there place at these incidents. Also to if you notice guys, whenever the shit hits the fan and there are houses in danger, who do they ask for? thats right FRS (cfrs + vfrs)

Sgtseedy you are a buffoon and that is the attitude that needs to change, alot can be said about some of us vols that I come across too.

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Re: Firies in the Hills

Post by auntys_eyes » Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:05 am

I was trying my hardest not to bite on this one, but this cannot go un-answered. In response to this specific comment;
Wannabee wrote:...Come midnight when everyone wanted to go home tired who stayed and put in the hard yards? FRS. How do I know cause I was there...
I travelled from Darlington Station to the Karnup fire for a shift between midnight and 8am Thursday morning. When we arrived at midnight i did not see a single FRS appliance at the Control Point. What i did see was a large number of VBFB appliances from the Mundaring, Swan, Wanneroo and Gosnells LGAs and a large number of DEC appliances. During the shift between midnight and 8am, partnered with a Sector Commander i neither saw nor heard a FRS appliance on the Karnup fire ground. What i did see and hear was a lot of VBFB and DEC appliances. At 8am when we left the Control Point i didn't see any FRS appliances. What i did see was a handfull of VBFB and DEC appliances leaving and arriving.

Wannabee - If you would like to clarify your statement and advise where all the FRS appliances were operating after midnight, please do. Otherwise get off your high horse and don't generalise.
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Re: Firies in the Hills

Post by SmashedXR6T » Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:11 am

Aunty can i please mention that i was there as a part of an vfrs brigade arriving their just after 5pm... we were utilised to our full extent in the initial stages and performing patrols areas. When we got to the IC for a break at approx 9pm. I discover that there were 3 frs brigades sitting at the IC point still waiting to be tasked and one of those frs units had been waiting for over 3 hours.

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Re: Firies in the Hills

Post by Smithy » Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:06 pm

I had been at Karnup for 3 days straight with minimal sleep, just like so many other local Volunteers (BFS and FRS)
Career FRS while they have there shifts are not obliged to work outside there hours, and that is fair enough, but those hours they do work, when the going gets tough, is bloody hard and taxing. The same goes for BFS, VFRS and DEC. All working for a common goal and doing absolutely everything they can to accomplish that. TO hear that people so called on the ground only saw CFRS at the houses protecting assets is a little sad to be honest. Coming from someone sitting behind a shed full of pestisides while the flames were crowning over us and burning branches dropping metres from us. Yes i am BFS, but at the end of the day it didnt matter what colour our truck was, we were working just as hard as the career guys from hope valley and vols from rocky 2nd all using lines to keep this shed standing. Look at the outcome, not one structure lost. Pretty amazing if you ask me considering the intesity and location of that fire.

At the end of the day, this is just one of many stories of co-operation from those two major days. We all have a roll to play and by working together the job will be done. Sorry this isnt so much about the hills, just felt the need to correct some facts about karnup

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Re: Firies in the Hills

Post by kylep » Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:55 pm

ace of spades wrote:Kylep, I'm not having a go at Kalamunda vollies or vollies in general but are you saying that if they put carreer staff in at a kalamunda or mundaring even for just summer, that those communities are not better off. I know that these vol stations are great in turn outs but the facts remain, getting someone mobile in less than 2 mins is better than 5-6 isn't it?
Yes, 3-4 minutes quicker does help to an extent. Of approximately 100 scrub fires per year in the area, that would come at a cost of $10,000 per fire, just in the wages for Career firefighters, let alone the additional running and capital expenses. Based on $1M on wages per year.
In the next sentence you'd be complaining about how much tax you pay or the lack of health services.
And while 3-4 minutes may help in theory, are there any examples in that area where this would make a real difference?
ace of spades wrote:I don't know but after listening to the audio on 6PR the Kalamunda guy seemed very precious about his patch. Remember don't our taxes pay for permenant firies to go to jobs. I know a few and they say that they are not there to upset vollies but help the community as best they can. Reliance on Vollies who have other jobs needs to stop. There will always be a need for Volunteers in these areas but I just feel that having some carreer presence in these areas is better rather than worse and we vols need to embrace them and not fight against them.
That Firefighter, of 30 years and around 2000 incidents experience, including time as Captain - was simply correcting some of the inferences made by the antagonistic Sattler, and the very carefully selected words of the UFU rep, who were trying to instil fear and reaction from residents of the area. Asserting that the services provided by the Kalamunda FRS and BFS brigades do keep the communities in that area safe from fire.
Reliance on Volunteers in this country will never stop. With such a low population density, this country simply cannot afford to spread career firefighters into every community. Risk management takes place to try to utilise the limited resources (budget) for the greater good. Your taxes do not pay specifically for career firefighters. They pay for a standard of fire cover. It is a fact of life that residents living further from densely populated areas will have access to diminishing services and pay diminishing rates for this.

ace of spades wrote:I don't exactly agree totally with you wannabe, I know all vols who go to fires put the hard yards in but I do feel that every agency has there place at these incidents. Also to if you notice guys, whenever the shit hits the fan and there are houses in danger, who do they ask for? thats right FRS (cfrs + vfrs)

Sgtseedy you are a buffoon and that is the attitude that needs to change, alot can be said about some of us vols that I come across too.
[/quote]
The reason FRS are requested when 'shit hits the fan' is that property protection is required, and FRS appliances and members are most equipped to deal with this. BFS will still be getting pulled in as well. All services will be required with so much work to do.

An yes, that was a terrible statement! I think everyone agrees with that.


What I am saying is most specific to Kalamunda, as that was the example used, and I am knowledgable of that area. However what I am saying overall is that you need to consider the risk, the cost and the benefit of any solution. If we could afford it, I'm sure every community would be covered by career emergency services, and we would have a helitac or 5 at every airport. We live in a sparse country, with high fire risk, and limited resources. Think bigger.

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Re: Firies in the Hills

Post by Fastlane » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:03 pm

ace of spades wrote:I don't exactly agree totally with you wannabe, I know all vols who go to fires put the hard yards in but I do feel that every agency has there place at these incidents. Also to if you notice guys, whenever the shit hits the fan and there are houses in danger, who do they ask for? thats right FRS (cfrs + vfrs)
Don't misrepresent the reason for this. FRS are called in because they can perform an offensive structural attack if needed. If all Bush Fire Brigades were resourced with the equipment and training for offensive structural attack, then I'm sure this wouldn't be the case. Some BFB's have been prevented from receiving this equipment and training in the past due to 'politics' with the union. As I think someone from a currently BA-equipped BFB (that may lose it) said on here recently, my lungs and safety are as important as everyone elses - the colour of the truck or status (career or vol) of the person shouldn't matter.

Disclaimer: This is my opinion, not necessarily that of any organisation I may be a part of.

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Re: Firies in the Hills

Post by Wannabee » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:51 pm

Firstly A E i was refering to Tuesday night wednesday morning in my last post. Secondly Smithy apart from getting your face in the paper i strongly doubt you were there for 3 days straight and if you were then you need to re look at your duty of care towards yourself and fellow fire fighters in regards to fatigue. As for everyone else we all need to face reality that BFB attend BUSHFIRES and FRS attend BUSHFIRES plus rescue,structual,hazmat etc. Thats life its not going to change. If you dont like it join an FRS brigade but please stop trying to make a BFS brigade something it is not.

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Re: Firies in the Hills

Post by Zebedee » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:57 pm

Really ... is this what people think and do? My six year old nephew behaves better than this.

This thread is a fantastic eye opener for anyone considering volunteering in the emergency services of the petty politics and backstabbing that goes on.

After reading this, why would anyone be silly enough to put their names down as volunteer firefighters if what they're going to have to deal with is crap like this?
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Re: Firies in the Hills

Post by WPXZBP » Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:46 pm

This thread has been locked to show how petty arguments can turn into a fully fledged war of words.

Let's all try to be mature in our discussions and be tolerant of other peoples' points of view.

Flame wars waste bandwidth and achieve nothing.

Locked