Air Attack 09/10

Magnus · Post by **Magnus** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:39 pm

I see the same company do aerial tree pruning, this video shows some skilful flying to say the least.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMQgt5YiD0w

Fastlane · Post by **Fastlane** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:39 pm

Helitak_670 wrote:Our 09/10 S61 is currently being assembled at Essendon in Victoria before she heads west. Rego is C-FQNG here is a pic http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_ ... size=large
and here is their website http://www.vih.com

said it wasnt a Super Puma

newbie · Post by **newbie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:28 pm

Carson developed their own blades for the S61 which gave them more speed and lift capabilities so it will be interesting if the new S61 carries the full 4000lt... probably wouldn't be that different if at all though.

I saw an interview and the guy mentioned Erickson was bringing 6 choppers this summer with 1 on standby, 2 were the larger 'Elvis' type and 4 others... I figured they were the 6000lt "babies" of the Sky Cranes.

Seeming the isolation of Perth I would think we would be high on the list of a heavy lift chopper, S61 is good but when the east coast are using gear that is over twice as large it makes you think.

WA has 8 fix wings and 5 choppers but states like VIC have a fleet of 120 aircraft (that would include spotter craft etc also)... maybe we're a little light on? they hate taking the choppers out of the metro/outer metro area so maybe more would be a good idea? or lets run two S61's...

WPXZBP · Post by **WPXZBP** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:19 pm

The Carson was in Mount Barker for the fires there in March 09 and at the Fitzgerald River fire 08/09(?).

The larger population base and different vegetative/terrain conditions of Australia's south-east results in a different aerial arsenal there compared to here.

newbie · Post by **newbie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:51 pm

Obviously WA will never have the same size fleet as the East Coast states but when moving choppers out of the normal responce area is a touchy issue due to it affecting the coverage of the metro/outer metro area then maybe we are a little light on... I remember when they first got the S61 it was seen as having this great range and flexibility that was going to make a difference to fires in more remote areas but since they got it its just stayed around Perth.
I've been to a number of more remote area incidents where the guys on the ground have said lets get it in and the responce has always come back it wont leave the metro responce area. I know its hard to change the status quo on that stuff but it would be nice to change it sometimes

Post by **Tyranus** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:04 pm

newbie wrote:Obviously WA will never have the same size fleet as the East Coast states but when moving choppers out of the normal responce area is a touchy issue due to it affecting the coverage of the metro/outer metro area then maybe we are a little light on... I remember when they first got the S61 it was seen as having this great range and flexibility that was going to make a difference to fires in more remote areas but since they got it its just stayed around Perth.
I've been to a number of more remote area incidents where the guys on the ground have said lets get it in and the responce has always come back it wont leave the metro responce area. I know its hard to change the status quo on that stuff but it would be nice to change it sometimes

WPXZBP wrote:The Carson was in Mount Barker for the fires there in March 09 and at the Fitzgerald River fire 08/09(?).

Who said it's not going out of the metro area, sure it may not be but then there may be other reasons why it hasn't left such as it's currently operational or it's a very high fire danger and they're worried that something is going to go up in flames in the metro area. Sure it would be nice if we could let other areas such as Mt Barker, Albany and Esperance have a quicker response Helitac wise, same with Geraldton, but it costs a lot of money to have helicopters sitting there doing nothing, and it costs a lot to fly them down when they're needed, and with the length of flying time for the squirrels they would probably have to fly down other pilots by aircraft if they're wanting to put them straight in the air. Due to max flying hours for the day, I'm sure the pilots and other aviation enthusiasts will confirm there's a max number of hours you're allowed to fly in a day.

Helitak_670 · Post by **Helitak_670** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:34 pm

The limiting factor for aerial ops is daylight and the regs that CASA put out. As for the capability of the current fleet of aircraft, they do a great job. At the end of the day we as fire fighters put to much effort into knowing that we have that resource available and we not always get it. Just look at yesterday Malaga asked and 6AR said No. However saying that you read up on the research done by the Bushfire CRC in Canberra and they have proven time and time again that as soon as water bombing aircraft are in use the risk with the fire spreading dramaticly reduces greatly. (http://www.bushfirecrc.com/)
(http://www.bushfirecrc.com/research/a31/a31.html)

However in saying that the choppers don't fly out of the metro area, well there is a good reason for that. Out in the country there isn't to many water sources that you can draw from due to possible contamination of drinking water for humans and also stock. Also due to the vast distance that may require filling of the helicopters a fixed wing is better.
Remember that the AS350B3 that is ops as Helitac's only have 1000lts of water
PZL Dromader is 2500lts
Air Tractor 602 is 2500lts
Air Tractor 802 is 3200lts
From my Ground controllers book Helitac ops are 120km's from Perth Airport which gets your out east to Cunderdin, North to Wongan Hills and South to Harvey. Air Intel is 200km's with the fixed wing a lot longer than that.
The aircraft are based as follows
1x AT602 and 1 x 802 at Jandakot
4 x AS350B3's at Perth
1 x 802 and 1x 602 at Bunbury
2 x Dromaders at Albany
2 x Dromaders at Manjimup

Hey I would definitely think that a extra 2 AS350's would be great and I am sure the boys at HA would think so to (more work for them), and also an additional S61 (A S64 would be way better) would be good to. I am pretty certain that the S61 this year has a bambi bucket, so its going to be very interesting to see how that mixes in with the helitac's this year. The Carson was great as it was very accurate. Having worked with the S64 Skycrane/Aircrane, they are certainly a great machine, however I don't think that our state governments pockets are that deep at the moment.

As for the Skycrane/Aircrane the water tanks are 9000lts for the orange ones (Erickson Skycranes) and the red one that came out for a few years in Sydney based out of the Paramatta helipad was a Aircrane with 8500lts I think off memory.

WPXZBP · Post by **WPXZBP** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:37 pm

Last year Albany had ATs, not PZL Dromaders.

BuddahFRS · Post by **BuddahFRS** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:31 pm

Helitak_670 wrote:
HI am pretty certain that the S61 this year has a bambi bucket, so its going to be very interesting to see how that mixes in with the helitac's this year.

what is a bambi bucket. ???

also fires in WA are different in NSW/VIC/Eastern States.
over there they relay more on aerial firefighting as the terrain limits ground operations.

but yeah over here it would be nice with an extra two or four helitaks, an extra S61, and yeah a bulk chopper, like a 9000l sky crane.

but yeah just remember, we put out the fires before choppers and planes, so yeah lets not be dependable on them, and dependable on our ground resources and fire fighting techniques.

WPXZBP · Post by **WPXZBP** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:16 am

It's a collapsible bucket used to pick up water and drop it onto fires, rather than the ventral (under-belly) tanks the helitacs and Fire King use. Bambi Bucket™ is a trade-marked name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_bucket

Fastlane · Post by **Fastlane** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:46 am

It has a belly tank the same as the Carson.

bomber · Post by **bomber** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:37 am

Can confirm that helitak 670 has arrived in WA. It is currently doing lifting practice down at safety bay working from an old oval at point peron

pacestick · Post by **pacestick** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:51 am

I Just herd air intel call in saying they are leaving for somewhere does anybody know where they are heading?

I herd them mention a water tower

BFB LT1 · Post by **BFB LT1** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:10 pm

Any idea how much water the new S61 holds??????

Helitak_670 · Post by **Helitak_670** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:55 pm

I just got a email with a pic (sorry I can't share) The aircraft has a white belly tank,(appears a 4000ltr tank) very similar, if not the same as the Carson S61 that was here. The S61 will be arriving on Friday, well that's the plan anyway. I am definitely taking the camera to work.

WA Radio Scanner Users' Group

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