WA Radio Scanner Users' Group

The future of Recruitment, Selection and Training may well change in the coming years and I dare say that DFES will be looking at this new model as proposed by an Eastern States Fire and Rescue Service. The plans are to commence this new approach later this year?

Changes to Selection:
The 9.6 Beep Test is being revised down to level 6.5 for two reasons:

1. By lowering the minimum standard from 9.6 to 6.5 it will allow more female applicants to successfully complete this test, thus creating a greater pool of applicants to move onto the next stage.

2. Career Firefighters at a randomly selected station undertook the Physical Entry test (hose drag, fetch equipment, climb ladders etc) and at the end of this test they had there V02 levels measured (the maximum capacity of an individual's body to transport and use oxygen during exercise). The results of the V02 tests revealed that a fitness standard of only level 6.5 on the beep test is sufficient to complete the test - thus making it questionable as to why Level 9.6 is required if fire fighters ‘on-the-job’ can complete the task without the higher fitness level?

Changes to Training:
Upon successfully being accepted into that States Fire and Rescue Service, the new recruit will have to pay for his/her training and they won’t graduate until the course has been fully paid for too -amounting to thousands of dollars!! However you will receive a wage of around $100 per week, but once ‘sundry expenses’ have been deducted, you are more or less left with nothing. Can you afford to go 12 weeks without pay and pay for the course?

But....
The same Fire and Rescue Service has also just appointed two Superintendents – straight from Civvy Street with no experience in fire fighting but they can run a business and manage the books fairly well.

It's definately 'watch this space' with this one!

So is any of this actually happening, or is it simply rumour and hearsay?

This is going to be interesting. The fitness is more for during the course than anything as you are really put through a lot of physical exercise in comparison to when you are on station.

Self funded training? Not sure I agree but there are some might suggest it brings it in line with most other careers where you need to train yourself first before getting a job? There's another way of looking at it, open recruitment up by relaxing the fitness standards, then close it back down by imposing a financial penalty so that they are effectively trying to keep demand for positions constant? Ah I don't know, it will be interesting to see if anything happens and what the consequences might be.

The first part is slightly believable but I am sure the union would kick up a huge stink about the self funded part.

dlcat1 wrote:Self funded training? Not sure I agree but there are some might suggest it brings it in line with most other careers where you need to train yourself first before getting a job?

Like the military or police?

robbage wrote:

dlcat1 wrote:Self funded training? Not sure I agree but there are some might suggest it brings it in line with most other careers where you need to train yourself first before getting a job?

Like the military or police?

I think they might be the exceptions Nurses, doctors, teachers not sure about ambulance, all have to get themselves through uni before they are considered for a job. Even apprenticeships aren't what they used to be. I don't support it, but there are going to be some in government who ask what the difference between a nurse and a firefighter is, and why one is getting free training, and how much they could save if they didn't.

dlcat1 wrote:I think they might be the exceptions Nurses, doctors, teachers not sure about ambulance, all have to get themselves through uni before they are considered for a job. Even apprenticeships aren't what they used to be. I don't support it, but there are going to be some in government who ask what the difference between a nurse and a firefighter is, and why one is getting free training, and how much they could save if they didn't.

Not to mention Pilots

.

philby wrote:6.5? Thats walking.
...
What all stations need (career/volunteer) is yearly fitness/medical test!.

I thought all CABA operators needed a six monthly?

Well they have advertised for recruits today and does not appear to be any changes to the selection process as previously stated and from what recruitment has told me today in regards to future processes it would appear that someone may be talking shite......

If you re-read the original post Wannabee, it's an Eastern States Fire Service that is doing this - and i've heard this from a few perm staff who have requested that I do not release what State it is.

Scanning the internet this morning i've noticed a 'Eastern States Fire and Rescue Service' has commenced a recruitment - with no beep test. If you read the Candidate Information Package by "NSW Fire and Rescue", starting at page 11 it gives details of the Physcial Apitude Test - a series of work related tasks. For the benefit of Mr Wannabe who didnt believe this was the case, here is the link: http://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/gallery/file ... n_2013.pdf

My apologies mr ironbark but in your first post you suggested dfes may be looking into this and like I stated this is not the case and simply in your imagination. At the end of the day if you can't pass a simple beep test and associated testing then u shouldn't be in the fire service anyway. I can't see a point of dumbing down testing processes to allow inadequate applicants to become successful applicants......

Following on from my original post regarding the future of selection and training, I've noticed that NSW Police Recruits self-fund there initial training. (for the benefit of others - NSW Police is not related to DFES. To my knowledge DFES is not adopting this approach)

Quotes from the NSW Police Recruitment FAQs:Q: Do I get paid while I am at the Academy?

Whilst at the Academy you are considered to be a student and, as such, you will receive no salary until such times as you are employed as a Probationary Constable with the NSW Police Force. Scholarships are available - refer to the scholarships question above for further information.

Q. What does the course involve for undergraduate students?
Undergraduate students are required to complete an initial 13 weeks of full time study at the NSW Police Academy, Goulburn before completing an 80 hour police placement and a further 14 weeks full time study at the NSW Police Academy. Should you be successful in gaining employment with the NSW Police Force you will then complete Sessions 3, 4 and 5 by distance education while working full-time as a Probationary Constable.


Quotes from Charles Sturt University FAQ's (provider of the Course):

B. EXPENSES
You must be able to meet these costs yourself, as financial assistance is not normally available for these expenses (see below: Student Loans - Police Credit Union).

Tuition Fees
All students enrolled in the Associate Degree must pay a subject tuition fee which is calculated by a formula based on the number of subjects enrolled in each session. Fees can be paid UPFRONT at the commencement of each session (this does not attract a discount) or DEFERRED via the Commonwealth Government loans scheme FEE-HELP with repayments later made through the Australian Tax Office and attracting a loan fee for undergraduate students. You can change payment options at the start of each session.
FEE-HELP repayments to the Tax Office will commence immediately your current taxable income reaches the repayment threshold for any particular financial year, even if you are still studying. Repayments are based on the level of taxable income. Further information on current tuition fees will be provided if and when you are made an offer into the Associate Degree in Policing Practice.
Student Services and Amenities Fee (SSAF): Visit the follwoing site for information about the SSAF fee. Visit the SSAF information page.

Accommodation
On campus: at the NSW Police Force Academy: $100 per week, including all meals during Sessions 1 and 2.
Off campus: $70 share and food and bills = $130 (approximate per person) or full board = $125 (approximately).

Textbooks:
Allow approximately $200 across Session 1 and 2.

Ouch.