Alarm

[spartacus]

In the american alarm system the maximum alarm classification is unlimited. they can theoretically keep calling alarms as high as they want, but as a previous poster said after about 3/4th alarm they call for specific appliances. I remember reading somewhere that 9/11 was technically a 25th alarm in terms of what appliances turned out.

9/11 was a 6th Alarm, I heard it on the FDNY recording.

[timS]

9/11 was a 6th Alarm, I heard it on the FDNY recording.

There was more than one call over the course of the day. But as stated before, above this level Alarm calls are simply a technicality, they prefer to ask for specific appliances then to simply keep raising the alarm level. In the FDNY, each alarm has a pre-determined amount of appliances that turn out. The amount of appliances that did turn out constituted a 25th alarm structure fire, regardless of whether the people in charge actually called it through to comms.

[ace of spades]

The alarm classification is made by an Incident controller. The arrival codes are purely there to tell comcen about a quick synopsis of the incident. An 88 doesn't necessarily tell the comcen to throw everything at it they must wait till the incident controller has determined what alarm is and then send the appropriate resources. You can and I have been to fires that the officer has called an 88 confirmed second alarm, if you go of the logic that you need to throw everything at it then there would be 5 stations automaticaly turned out which is not the case all it is telling the comms and incoming back up is that there is a confirmed fire and assistance is required urgently. Alarm classifications are a way of telling the comms of resources that should be turned out and that is totally different to arrival codes. Also the amount of appliances on the fire ground doesn't relate to the type of alarm it is because you can have 8 FRS pumps at a structure fire and only be a 3rd or 4th alarm fire so we need be careful about alarm classifications especially if you have never given one before and don't totally understand the principles behind it.

[fire&rescuetraining]

In general, I agree with ace of spades.
For more info on the structure of the control that goes on for an incident look at

http://knowledgeweb.afac.com.au/training/aiims

or do a web search on AIIMS

Once you understand the incident control structure for managing an incident you will understand why large alarm "codings" are not so relevant anymore. Anyone working in an incident management team (IMT) at type III, type II or type I incidents will know what I am referring to. How to grade an incident is part of the incident control system (ICS) used from simple first alarm through to the largest incident imaginable and is based on the span of control - i.e. making sure each person is able to manage without being overloaded by having too many resources under his/her span of control. In the U.S.A. they often have huge incidents that have IMT's managing many other IMT's. Having instructed in the U.S.A, U.K., Germany and here, I can say that most countries are fairly similar in the system of management. Grading is only an INITIAL reference until the IMT is established.

Confused? - do a course in AIIMS !

[bohong]

fire&rescuetraining,

This discussion is not about what the grades are when an IMT are setup, it is about the alarm classifiactions that the 1st arriving officer gives.

Therefore in the initial stages of arrival and size up, the SO or capt etc will give the codes as described in earlier and posts and so thoroughly by ace of spades. As stated these codes are purely to identify whether the fire is as reported or is larger.

Only then if the alarm classification is, generally, 3rd alarm or higher will a full IMT (AIIMS) system will be put into place which is what you are talking about. I know that Qld FRS only last year changed their initial arrival codes to those that we use being 44, 66, 88. Remember these are INITIAL arrival codes and do not relate to the incident grades that you go on about.

Initial arrival codes and IMT grades are 2 totally different things.

[fire&rescuetraining]

fire&rescuetraining,

This discussion is not about what the grades are when an IMT are setup, it is about the alarm classifiactions that the 1st arriving officer gives.

Therefore in the initial stages of arrival and size up, the SO or capt etc will give the codes as described in earlier and posts and so thoroughly by ace of spades. As stated these codes are purely to identify whether the fire is as reported or is larger.

Only then if the alarm classification is, generally, 3rd alarm or higher will a full IMT (AIIMS) system will be put into place which is what you are talking about. I know that Qld FRS only last year changed their initial arrival codes to those that we use being 44, 66, 88. Remember these are INITIAL arrival codes and do not relate to the incident grades that you go on about.

Initial arrival codes and IMT grades are 2 totally different things.

I think you will find that we are saying the same thing - especially if I re write my last sentence as Alarm grading/classification is only an initial reference... which is what I was meaning. I also did not refer to arrival codes (44, 66, 88) so I am surprised at the comment.