Major fires 2006/07
Moderator: bogged
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JG-103
3rd alarm last night in kwinana, tunnicliffe x Gilmour (even tho the two dont cross) the real x is mears
Hope Valley, Rockingham 1st and Kwinana VFRS (townies) were there, 3 pumpers sittin on the side of the road as usual ( no i didnt go check it out, my ex told me coz she went an spoke to the lady from HV, and the pumpers are always sittin on the side of the road doin sfa- because they dont have 4wd capabilities)
Required Fremantle 1st to cover Rockingham.
Townies got stood down at 12ish, a good 6 hours after it started, what took 3 FRS brigades 6 hours would have taken 1 VBFB 3 hours or less
Hope Valley, Rockingham 1st and Kwinana VFRS (townies) were there, 3 pumpers sittin on the side of the road as usual ( no i didnt go check it out, my ex told me coz she went an spoke to the lady from HV, and the pumpers are always sittin on the side of the road doin sfa- because they dont have 4wd capabilities)
Required Fremantle 1st to cover Rockingham.
Townies got stood down at 12ish, a good 6 hours after it started, what took 3 FRS brigades 6 hours would have taken 1 VBFB 3 hours or less
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chrissss
in that bush there wouldve taken us lessJG-103 wrote:3rd alarm last night in kwinana, tunnicliffe x Gilmour (even tho the two dont cross) the real x is mears
Hope Valley, Rockingham 1st and Kwinana VFRS (townies) were there, 3 pumpers sittin on the side of the road as usual ( no i didnt go check it out, my ex told me coz she went an spoke to the lady from HV, and the pumpers are always sittin on the side of the road doin sfa- because they dont have 4wd capabilities)
Required Fremantle 1st to cover Rockingham.
Townies got stood down at 12ish, a good 6 hours after it started, what took 3 FRS brigades 6 hours would have taken 1 VBFB 3 hours or less
chris
Were there any resources outside of the 3 pumps and light tankers in attendance? If not, then this is actually a 2nd alarm, with extra resources.
And you would be interested to see what a couple of pumpers can do at a scrub/bush fire. It is all about how it is used. And sure, if a BFB brigade has a couple of 2.4s or several appliances, then less Brigades/Stations are needed. But you are essentially looking at 3 light tankers and 3 1.2s if the pumpers arent able to use reticulated water in this example.
Instead of constantly complaining on a public forum about not being used, formulate some solid plans and strategies, or an MOU, and take them to your LEMC meetings. This is where the issue should be addressed, and where the different stakeholders can organise things.
just my 2c.
And you would be interested to see what a couple of pumpers can do at a scrub/bush fire. It is all about how it is used. And sure, if a BFB brigade has a couple of 2.4s or several appliances, then less Brigades/Stations are needed. But you are essentially looking at 3 light tankers and 3 1.2s if the pumpers arent able to use reticulated water in this example.
Instead of constantly complaining on a public forum about not being used, formulate some solid plans and strategies, or an MOU, and take them to your LEMC meetings. This is where the issue should be addressed, and where the different stakeholders can organise things.
just my 2c.
Photos:: liveitseeit.com
A 3 station FRS turnout is usually considered a 3rd alarm, unless the office in charge specifically classifies it as a "2nd alarm with additional resources". Without having heard the radio chatter, I dont think any of us can say with any certainty what alarm classification was given?
JG and chris, as for saying that a BFB could've done it in 3 hours or less - how can you say something like that without actually having been at the incident yourself? Why don't you go down to the local FRS stations and say that to their firefighters in person? I'm sure you will get a good reception!
As for Kyle's suggestion.. he is right. Lobby your Brigade Officers and Local Govt to change things - it is only them that can do so. The career FF's and people in the communications centre are only doing their jobs and what is written in their guidelines. You have to lobby for change instead of sitting in a chair and bitching about things in a forum...
JG and chris, as for saying that a BFB could've done it in 3 hours or less - how can you say something like that without actually having been at the incident yourself? Why don't you go down to the local FRS stations and say that to their firefighters in person? I'm sure you will get a good reception!
As for Kyle's suggestion.. he is right. Lobby your Brigade Officers and Local Govt to change things - it is only them that can do so. The career FF's and people in the communications centre are only doing their jobs and what is written in their guidelines. You have to lobby for change instead of sitting in a chair and bitching about things in a forum...
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JG-103
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firefly.000
spot on fast lane. A few times I have read now the frs in that area getting bagged. I have respect for volunteers in that they give up there time to help the community at all times, however I think a little respect needs to go the other way aswell. Sure they might have had three stations there but that is because each station only has one LT. Big deal, three LTs is nothing at a fire. Sure one BFB could have handled it but that is because they have more off road appliances. You wouldnt have got turned out due to the turnout matrix which has probably changed to ESL boundaries. Saying you can extinguish is in three hours wont win you friends at firegrounds. I would also like to see you say that to the firies that were there. I hope you were only joking but it is hard to tell that from your post As good as some volunteers are, you are still volunteers and I dont think will ever be as good as firefighters who do it day in, day out as a profession and extignuish fires in half the time.Fastlane wrote:
JG and chris, as for saying that a BFB could've done it in 3 hours or less - how can you say something like that without actually having been at the incident yourself? Why don't you go down to the local FRS stations and say that to their firefighters in person? I'm sure you will get a good reception!
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firefly.000
personally in my opinion I dont think they can be in the wide variety of firefighting. Someone who does it 48 hours a week, every week, to my should be better than volunteers. As i said i still have respect for volunteers and they are a much needed resource, but believe a full time firefighter should be better skilled. I once thought when I was a volunteer with a northern country VFRS brigade I was just as good at everything but I now believe there is a difference. It might tend itself more towards the variety of work such as structural, cbr, hazmat, rescue but i still think there is a difference.Fastlane wrote:more like still..firefly.000 wrote:sounds like carabooda is going, again
and I think you have to be careful too, firefly, implying that just because people are volunteers, they cant be as good at it as career firefighters..
major bushfires.
I dont want to be a pain but I thought this was the MAJOR FIRES topic,not the bitch about each other topic.Can we please stick to the topic.Maybe we can have a We are better than You topic stickied and complain about eack other there.Just a suggestion.
Firefly,
Career Firefighters need to be trained at, and capable of dealing with a wide variety of incidents, in a quick and efficient way, with the crew structure utilised. There is no doubt that when it comes to dealing with many structure, CBR, Hazmat etc incidents, then Career firefighters should perform better than Volunteers, and certainly BFS FFs - as BFS are not trained in these, and FRS Vols have less training and experience in these areas.
Many Career stations deal with numerous Bush and Scrub fires throughout the Summer season, but many do not. Most Volunteer FRS Brigades, and even more so, BFS brigades, spend much of their time preparing for, and working at, bush and scrub fires. Many also perform many many Hazard Reductions, and familiarisation of bushland areas. In some instances, this means that Volunteers are better equipped, trained and experienced in dealing with Bush and Scrub incidents than Career FFs. Certainly by generalistation, Volunteers may be better than Career FFs at dealing with these incidents, but I'm not about to go saying that that is the case, just a possibility.
The other matter is that on a case by case basis, there are many good, and many not so good, firefighters on both sides of the fence. I have run into plenty of both, in both the Career groups and volunteer groups. I am certain that some of the best Firefighters when it come sot any size of bushfire, are in the Volunteer ranks, due to their time of service, and experience with so many of these incidents.
As another note to remember, your avg week is actually 42 hours, as you do 48 hrs in 8 days. It helps when you are putting a case forward itf you do not exagerate facts.
By no means am I attacking anyone here, just reminding people that there are many different factors in this debate, and understanding the other sides helps to work out a common solution or direction.
cheers
Stay Safe
Career Firefighters need to be trained at, and capable of dealing with a wide variety of incidents, in a quick and efficient way, with the crew structure utilised. There is no doubt that when it comes to dealing with many structure, CBR, Hazmat etc incidents, then Career firefighters should perform better than Volunteers, and certainly BFS FFs - as BFS are not trained in these, and FRS Vols have less training and experience in these areas.
Many Career stations deal with numerous Bush and Scrub fires throughout the Summer season, but many do not. Most Volunteer FRS Brigades, and even more so, BFS brigades, spend much of their time preparing for, and working at, bush and scrub fires. Many also perform many many Hazard Reductions, and familiarisation of bushland areas. In some instances, this means that Volunteers are better equipped, trained and experienced in dealing with Bush and Scrub incidents than Career FFs. Certainly by generalistation, Volunteers may be better than Career FFs at dealing with these incidents, but I'm not about to go saying that that is the case, just a possibility.
The other matter is that on a case by case basis, there are many good, and many not so good, firefighters on both sides of the fence. I have run into plenty of both, in both the Career groups and volunteer groups. I am certain that some of the best Firefighters when it come sot any size of bushfire, are in the Volunteer ranks, due to their time of service, and experience with so many of these incidents.
As another note to remember, your avg week is actually 42 hours, as you do 48 hrs in 8 days. It helps when you are putting a case forward itf you do not exagerate facts.
By no means am I attacking anyone here, just reminding people that there are many different factors in this debate, and understanding the other sides helps to work out a common solution or direction.
cheers
Stay Safe
Photos:: liveitseeit.com
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meg
- Moderator
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Re: major bushfires.
I'm voting with lytec - I'm a vollie but have no delusions of being good/bad/indifferent.lytec wrote:I dont want to be a pain but I thought this was the MAJOR FIRES topic,not the bitch about each other topic.Can we please stick to the topic.Maybe we can have a We are better than You topic stickied and complain about eack other there.Just a suggestion.
I'd rather this thread was info on "major fires" as the title suggests.
Either another thread or guys - get a room!
