WA Police Changeover to Digital Radio

[Admin]

You will probably find by March next year every district, including Peel will be on digital. Once each metro district is rolled out then goodbye analogue. The current digital radios have performed almost without fault. A test run showed a car halfway to Gero could access the digital network. I have used to portable to speak from Joondalup Health campus to another portable at Peel Health Campus so the network is impressive.

Interesting CHEV4EVR. Thanks

Even with tests using the amateur digital system (D-Star) it seems clear that digital is the way to go for the future. Range and noise immunity are far, far better than FM. Obviously as an added bonus the police get to use encryption, talk groups, and all sorts of fun new stuff.

It's funny because the 468Mhz analogue network was started because, in response to Cyclone Tracey, police vehicles from different states who went to help largely couldn't talk to each other on the ~79Mhz radios they used at the time. I think with digital in almost all states now, we're going back to this being a problem. I hope they keep a few analogue channels going 'just in case'...

[auntys_eyes]

A-E hate to be picky but it is not North East Metro, Midland is East Metro.

Cheers Chev, my bad. Thought i'd seen/heard it as NE Metro a few times but i'll stand corrected. East Metro it is .

[Zebedee]

The current digital radios have performed almost without fault. A test run showed a car halfway to Gero could access the digital network. I have used to portable to speak from Joondalup Health campus to another portable at Peel Health Campus so the network is impressive.

That's excellent news. It's good that the investment and time to "get it right" is paying off.

With all the fancy-pants stuff like talk groups etc, are they nice and easy to set up and use, or do you need an advanced degree in electronics?

[CHEV4EVR]

The network will always be backward compatible to analogue so you just flick a switch so to speak and back on the 468MHZ bandwith for your country trips etc.

The radios are actually more compatible for cross agency operations with FESA, SES etc. They have actually got the emergency "A" and "B" facilities to connect direct in the event of a major emergency.

The radios themselves are pretty simple to use and the only difference is making sure you get your zone right before punching in the "talkgroup" number. For eg the talkgroup for Central Metro actually has 3 zones, 1 zone for VKI (patched to analogue), zone 2 is an IMU talkgroup and is secure and zone 3 is for cars to go direct, again secure. You need to make sure you are on the right zone because zone 1 cannot talk directly to zone 2 or 3 and vice versa. Then again most coppers struggle with a tin can and piece of string setup!

There are lots of other tricks but they are probably not for me to say...

[vk6hgr]

The radios are actually more compatible for cross agency operations with FESA, SES etc. They have actuall got the emergency "A" and "B" facilities to connect direct in the event of a major emergency.

Cool!

I have a burning question... do the radios support UHF CB?

[CHEV4EVR]

From what I understand of the software on these radios the only bandwith limitation is your antenna..so in theory I suppose the answer would be yes considering UHF CB is not far from the current analogue UHF network band.

[vk6hgr]

From what I understand of the software on these radios the only bandwith limitation is your antenna..so in theory I suppose the answer would be yes considering UHF CB is not far from the current analogue UHF network band.

Good for the highway patrol guys then

[spartacus]

If anything they might move to digital but that is a few years away.

Found here:http://warsug.info/viewtopic.php?t=43

Amazing how long it takes to implement something from a "drawring board" stage to actually putting it into place. And how good some of the members are at predicting the future (even with some inside knowledge)

[APCO 25 Encrypted]

From what I understand of the software on these radios the only bandwith limitation is your antenna

No that is incorrect. The XTS5000 and XTL5000 Motorola radios which are being utilised on the new system are still restricted to the bandsplit in which they were manufactured for.

EG - A XTS5000 Model III UHF radio on 380-470MHz CAN be modified through the CPS ( customer programming software ) to work from 374MHz - 478MHz without degredation in performance, but as a result, it loses its FCC compliance leaving the operator/technician open to legal proceedings should the radio malfunction at a particular time and as a result, end in injury/death. This reason alone will be enough for the WAPOL and other services who may require UHF CB to purchase a unit designed for UHF CB only. Ofcourse though, if they are using radios that cover the 477MHz band in the radios bandsplit, this is not an issue. The above example is whats called out of band hacking and can be done to certain radios to get extended freq. coverage. I do operate both the Motorola XTS and XTL 5000 series radios and yes, i have hacked my radios to work OUT OF BAND, but, as i do not use them in a life or death situation, there is no problem. It should also be noted, doing so will VOID warranty.

By changing a radios antenna all you are doing is giving the radio better reception on a particular frequency range eg 403-430MHz.

I hope this has helped some people understand.

[Zebedee]

There are lots of other tricks but they are probably not for me to say...

No of course not, wouldn't expect you to either... But I do have some more questions - feel free to answer them or not, depending on how sensitive the information is

If there's an "incident" somewhere that requires a group of cars to talk amongst themselves, can whoever's running that incident at the scene set up a custom talk group, or does that have to be created by VKI on request?

I'm thinking of the sorts of things where Ch26 would have been activated in the past - it would be cool if it were possible to have the digital equivalent, sort of like "multiple virtual channel 26es" on the new system for greater flexibility...

But that might just be complicating the issue TOO much

[CHEV4EVR]

All the talkgroups are active at present so it is just a matter of knowing what zone and talkgroup to switch to, the handset will actually tell you in words rather than number as to what talkgroup you are on and whether you have access. Most of these groups are basically just set up for car to car communications and have no operator monitoring them. There literally dozens of different talkgroups.

There is no requirement to custom program it or to have VKI set it up as it is already going, which is much more preferable to having to base your emergency channel on whether to repeater tower is nearby (one of the inherent problems with Ch 26). They have the ability to run the entire metro area off one talkgroup should the situation require it.

Obviously not all radios can access all the talkgroups and that is determined by the encryption key in the radio. What access you have is dependant on what station/squad you belong to ie general duties vehicles do not have access to specialist area talk groups etc.

[Always RX]

From what I understand of the software on these radios the only bandwith limitation is your antenna

No that is incorrect. The XTS5000 and XTL5000 Motorola radios which are being utilised on the new system are still restricted to the bandsplit in which they were manufactured for.

EG - A XTS5000 Model III UHF radio on 380-470MHz CAN be modified through the CPS ( customer programming software ) to work from 374MHz - 478MHz without degredation in performance, but as a result, it loses its FCC compliance leaving the operator/technician open to legal proceedings should the radio malfunction at a particular time and as a result, end in injury/death. This reason alone will be enough for the WAPOL and other services who may require UHF CB to purchase a unit designed for UHF CB only. Ofcourse though, if they are using radios that cover the 477MHz band in the radios bandsplit, this is not an issue. The above example is whats called out of band hacking and can be done to certain radios to get extended freq. coverage. I do operate both the Motorola XTS and XTL 5000 series radios and yes, i have hacked my radios to work OUT OF BAND, but, as i do not use them in a life or death situation, there is no problem. It should also be noted, doing so will VOID warranty.

By changing a radios antenna all you are doing is giving the radio better reception on a particular frequency range eg 403-430MHz.

I hope this has helped some people understand.

Please forgive my ignorance...but I had thought the Wapol system was operating in the range somewhere between about 500mhz to 520mhz... or is this for tadis? In my workplace we have the XTS units trunked in the 800mhz+ range...not questioning your info ...just trying to understand it all.

[Always RX]

Thanks for the info Chev...sounds like it is starting to come together quite neatly. I hope its making your job better already. When u said that some of the groups are secure I assume you meant that these are encrypted?...does this also mean that all digital channels not patched to the analogue are now encrypted? Thanks again mate.

[WPXZBP]

... but as a result, it loses its FCC compliance leaving the operator/technician open to legal proceedings should the radio malfunction at a particular time and as a result, end in injury/death.

Just FYI - the FCC have no jurisdiction here in Australia.

[APCO 25 Encrypted]

Just FYI - the FCC have no jurisdiction here in Australia.

Yes i know this, but my example is just in general. I would imagine that australian authorities would not risk it anyway.