316

[dazla]

When I say emergency responce I mean they will have the bells and whistles but will only be able to do certain things in circumstances that require it.

For example, they will be able to use emergecy lanes to attend incidents etc, they will not be able to speed, break road rules etc.

[gkoutlis]

There is no way that Towies should have any priority to go to jobs at all.

If I happened to see them using there lights I would definatly be looking into it.

They only have authority to use their (orange) lights when in a stationary position at an accident.

Gkoutlis not having a go mate, just my opinion.

Dazla - Your opinion is most welcome. I also agree with everyone else, that Towies shouldn't be given priority to get there - but I still have no idea what warranted the order.....so

[Walks]

You cant even break the law to get out of the way of an emergency/police vehicle

Road Traffic Code 2000
272. Obedience to police or authorised persons
(1) Every pedestrian and driver shall obey the signal by hand or the reasonable oral direction given by a member of the Police Force or:
(b) an authorised person, if the signal or direction given by him or her is given for the purpose of facilitating the movement of a fire engine or other emergency vehicle;

(2) It is a defence to any complaint of a breach of these regulations that the defendant was, at the time of the alleged offence, acting in conformity with a signal or direction given under subregulation (1).


Merry Xmas

Walks.

[Fastlane]

You cant even break the law to get out of the way of an emergency/police vehicle

Road Traffic Code 2000
272. Obedience to police or authorised persons
(1) Every pedestrian and driver shall obey the signal by hand or the reasonable oral direction given by a member of the Police Force or:
(b) an authorised person, if the signal or direction given by him or her is given for the purpose of facilitating the movement of a fire engine or other emergency vehicle;

(2) It is a defence to any complaint of a breach of these regulations that the defendant was, at the time of the alleged offence, acting in conformity with a signal or direction given under subregulation (1).

So when the copper/ambo/firey is yelling at you from the vehicle to GET OUT OF THE WAY, please move. They don't care if you have to roll thru a red light or whatever. The 10 seconds you waste may cost someone their life.

Lets get our facts right before posting....doesn't take long to search on these kinds of questions.

There was a case last year where a motorist moved out of the way against a red light to let an ambulance through at Barrack St - they were caught by a red light camera and the police made a big song and dance at the time to tell the public they CANNOT break the law in order to allow passage of an emergency vehicle. This is reiterated in a joint FESA, WAPOL and ST JOHNS brochure that was recently released, see the brochure here and also a release from the Minister here.

There is little point forcing a driver through a red light and potentially causing ANOTHER accident and injury to save a couple of seconds?

(of course if this is incorrect, perhaps you need to raise this with FESA, St Johns, Police and the Emergency Services Minister?)

[vk6hgr]

There is little point forcing a driver through a red light and potentially causing ANOTHER accident and injury to save a couple of seconds?

You can technically run the red light without going through the intersection, for example moving out of the right lane and in front of the car in the left lane. Emegency vehicle drivers don't care about your demerit points, if you're in the left lane they usually want you to get out of the way!

I think the law is ambiguous anyway. You have to give way to emergency vehicles but you aren't permitted to break the law to do so. So what are you supposed to do when sitting at a full intersection facing a red light?

[gkoutlis]

I think in this sort of situation I have seen - especially an Ambulance - they go on the wrong side of the road - slowly with Sirens and Lights and attempt to cross the busy intersection, which i have seen - especially at the lights of Douglas Avenue and Canning Hwy South Perth - being one.

[vk6hgr]

(2) It is a defence to any complaint of a breach of these regulations that the defendant was, at the time of the alleged offence, acting in conformity with a signal or direction given under subregulation (1).

I'd just hope the next frame in the red light camera is the firetruck/policecar/whatever AND I can get access to it otherwise I can say goodbye to $150.

[Tom]

I saw a camera infringement at work the other night for contravening the white line at a controlled intersection. Basically failing to stop in time and running over the white line and getting flashed.

From memory it was a $150 or $300 fine and 3 demerit points.

If I remember i'll have a look at the RTA code when I'm at work tonight.

Would be interesting if your were to appeal this in court for an emergency vehicle situation.

Walks, the old D8 has appeared and is up for grabs..... only 33-34km.

cheers

Tom

[Steve]

The quote

"I heard the direct order by Swan Towing Radio Supervisor, that the tow trucks responding to the accident scene were given the green light by Police to attend the scene ASAP. The tow truck company advised the drivers to have their Orange Lights on, and get there as quick as they could"

suggests to me that the police on the scene could have radioed or phoned in to VKI and requested tow truck(s) on the scene ASAP, which is NOT the same as requesting tow trucks ignore road rules to get the scene quickly. We don't know what the police exactly requested - only what the tow truck dispatcher (who wouldn't I expect, have any authority under the relevant code) said to one of their units over the radio.

[dazla]

Exactly, the tow truck company could have interpreted differantly what Police Operations had asked him.

Police Operations would have just asked for the next available tow truck to attend the scene, even Police need the ok from the radio super to go on a priority 2.

As you would hear

VKI: "CD501 you have a priorty 2"
CD501: "Roger VKI, priority 2 confirmed"
VKI: "Priority 2 confrimed at 2200hrs"

This is then recorded on CAD by the operator and can be used if the police officers get caught by a camera etc.

There are certain jobs that require an automatic Priority 2, when this occures the Dispatcher can normally send a primary car plus one backup on a priority 2.

Dont get me wrong, towies do a great job, most of the time, but they are not an emergency service and dont respond to life threatening situations.

[Tom]

The offical wording.

"Contravene a red traffic control signal by proceeding beyond the stop line".

Code: 2602

3 demerit points.

cheers

Tom

[Walks]

You cant even break the law to get out of the way of an emergency/police vehicle

Road Traffic Code 2000
272. Obedience to police or authorised persons
(1) Every pedestrian and driver shall obey the signal by hand or the reasonable oral direction given by a member of the Police Force or:
(b) an authorised person, if the signal or direction given by him or her is given for the purpose of facilitating the movement of a fire engine or other emergency vehicle;

(2) It is a defence to any complaint of a breach of these regulations that the defendant was, at the time of the alleged offence, acting in conformity with a signal or direction given under subregulation (1).

There was a case last year where a motorist moved out of the way against a red light to let an ambulance through at Barrack St - they were caught by a red light camera and the police made a big song and dance at the time to tell the public they CANNOT break the law in order to allow passage of an emergency vehicle. This is reiterated in a joint FESA, WAPOL and ST JOHNS brochure that was recently released, see the brochure here and also a release from the Minister here.

There is little point forcing a driver through a red light and potentially causing ANOTHER accident and injury to save a couple of seconds?

(of course if this is incorrect, perhaps you need to raise this with FESA, St Johns, Police and the Emergency Services Minister?)

Breaking the law off your own back and obeying the reasonable oral direction of a Police Officer or Authorised person are two completely different things.

You cant even break the law to get out of the way of an emergency/police vehicle

This is a blanket quote from the Govt because to explain the minor details would turn it from a pamphlet into a mini novel.....maybe outside the comprehension of its intended audience.

Remember the law is never black or white, there is always a grey area.....thats how lawyers survive!

Walks.

[Fastlane]

Breaking the law off your own back and obeying the reasonable oral direction of a Police Officer or Authorised person are two completely different things.

You cant even break the law to get out of the way of an emergency/police vehicle

This is a blanket quote from the Govt because to explain the minor details would turn it from a pamphlet into a mini novel.....maybe outside the comprehension of its intended audience.

Remember the law is never black or white, there is always a grey area.....thats how lawyers survive!

Walks.

Yes, I dont disagree.. however, try finding that 'authorised person' after you've gotten an infringement. You've got buckleys chance.

Always best to err on the side of caution. When it comes to the crunch, its up to the emergency vehicle to find a way through

Out of interest, the code in New South Wales actually specifically directs drivers to run red lights etc, to get out of the way... (not sure about other states)

[dazla]

I will choose to sit in the grey area.


Notice the use of the word SHALL, this means you must, you dont have a choice in the matter.

The word MAY means its up to the Police Officer at the time or the member of public whoever it applies to.

This is how I think of it, the Ambulance sitting behind me could be on the way to MY house to save MY child.............should I do EVERYTHING in my power to let him through.

My father was recently in a situation where he was infront of an Ambulance responding to an emergency......parked at a red light.

He moved forward as infront of the car next to him, which was safe to do, and allowed the ambulance to pass.

This act activated a red light camera which took 3 seperate photos in sequence. Upon Police looking at the photos they gave my dad a courtesy call and advised him that they will not be taking any action.

The Police have whats known as Discretion, they can choose wheather they will prosecute a person for an offence, if a person could prove that they were acting in good faith and they were giving way to an emergency vehicle when safe to do so then there are not many police officer that would write the ticket.

What do you think Walks?

[Ludacris]

however, try finding that 'authorised person' after you've gotten an infringement. You've got buckleys chance.

When it comes to the crunch, its up to the emergency vehicle to find a way through

Its probably alot easier than you think trying to find that 'authorised person'.....

When it comes to the crunch should you chose to do nothing " and let the emergency vehicle find its way through" you cop a ticket.