Waccom UV5r opinions?

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Re: Waccom UV5r opinions?

Post by Nosferatu »

danoroth wrote: Thanks mate, so if i were to get a license i could use the CB on any channel, within the frequency of the chosen license?
With CB ... You can just use the ACMA approved CB transceiver right away with out any exams or license ... because the ACMA approved CB transceiver is already licensed under class license mentioned earlier in other threads ... and I believe you can use any of the 80 channels in that CB radio appropriately ... For example, you are not supposed to have a chat on the special channels like the emergency ones etc ... I'm not a CB user myself and I don't have any CB radio so perhaps other members can correct me if I mistakenly typed any misleading information
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Re: Waccom UV5r opinions?

Post by Zebedee »

danoroth wrote:Listen mate, I have never said and never would break federal law, why in the world would I do that?
From the responses you were making, asking "well who's going to catch me then" and stuff like that, it seemed pretty clear to me that you were intending on ignoring the advice you were being given. If I made a wrong assumption about that then I apologise.
I'm just looking for a friend decent radio at a price under $100
You're right, you're probably not going to find one, because none of the radio manufacturers seem to be too worried about making CB radios for use in Australia. Why? Because we're such a small market. Those FRS radios that you were originally looking at, you're going to get a much greater number of people buying those from the US because their population is many times ours. So there's more of an incentive to make them cheaper as you're going to sell more. But here in Australia, the number of CB radios being sold are going to be only a small percentage of radios that you could potentially sell in the US. So what do you (as a manufacturer) do? You either don't bother making radios compatible with Australian CB, or you charge a higher price to offset the cost of making radios for this market that are different from other markets. The exact same thing happens with all sorts of other goods. Anything where Australian conditions or specifications are different, it translates to either lower availability or higher cost.
and earlier I said the government IS ripping everyone off trying to buy a CB radio, the government makes only one kind of radio legal to be operated, and gives stores the advantage to sell them for a ridiculous price, and for a CRAP range.
No, that answer is just as silly today as it was when you said it the other day. It doesn't matter how many times you say such a thing, it's still wrong. The Australian government doesn't set the prices, the manufacturers and retailers do. They don't make "only one kind of radio legal to be operated", they publish a list of specifications and say "your radios must do this and this and not do this and this". Any manufacturer is welcome to make and sell radios that comply with those conditions as cheaply or as expensively as they want. The government has no say in any of that other than the original specifications. And this isn't something "different" that the Australian government is doing. The governments of every other country in the world are doing exactly the same thing. The FCC which is the US government body that regulates the radiofrequency spectrum in the US has conditions very similar to ours for these FRS radios. It's not some new scam that the Australian government has dreamed up, just to make our lives harder.
danoroth wrote:Well i received it today, literally just then and ALL the other buyers in Australia said they use them between the 2 CB radios and have had no worries, for about 5 years.
But they are breaking the law and eventually when it catches up to them, they'll have the radios confiscated off them at the very minimum and get a fine and or prison time as a maximum.
But i AM taking all you's knowledge and really am not going to use these, thank you for your help.
That's good to know! :)
Also i want to know, how old you have to be to get a CB license and where from?
There is no longer any such thing as a "CB licence" for an individual. So you can't get one. As Nosferatu says, CB operates under a "class licence" which means "providing the radio you buy meets the correct specifications, it's licenced". The same applies to USB wireless LAN dongles for example. They use radio frequencies but you don't need to apply for a licence to plug one into your PC and operate them because they are part of a (different) class licence that says "all these wireless LAN dongles must meet these specifications and if they do then they're licenced".
Annnnnd if any1 knows if there is a ACMA building in Perth WA, and if not. Who even enforces the 'rouge' frequencies in Perth??
The ACMA don't have a physical office in Perth any more. According to this document, they have offices in Canberra, Melbourne and Sydney. But that doesn't mean they don't operate in Perth, it just means they don't rent any office space here. I can prove they operate in Perth because I've had a visit to my house from an ACMA radio inspector and he left a nice little card with his details on it. So yes, they are active here in Perth and everywhere else in the country.

As for who enforces people operating on incorrect frequencies, the ACMA do. They may contract out the actual detection and investigation part to a third party, but when someone is knocking loudly on your door to confiscate radio gear from your house, it'll be a real-life ACMA inspector often with a couple of mean looking Federal police officers along as well.
danoroth wrote:Thanks mate, so if i were to get a license i could use the CB on any channel, within the frequency of the chosen license?
The licence that Nosferatu was mentioning has nothing to do with CB radio, it's something entirely different again. There are some kinds of radio activities that you need to get a licence to do. This usually involves sitting one or more exams.

VHF marine radio for example, you need to sit an exam for and pass a licence. (A bit like how you need a skipper's ticket to operate a boat, you also need to have a radio licence to operate the VHF marine radio on that boat...)

If you work in aviation, you need an air-band licence. So if you're a pilot, as part of your studies to get a pilot's licence, you may also study for and get an air-band radio operator's licence as well.

But if you had a marine licence, you couldn't transmit on the air band frequencies for example, or if you're a pilot you can't go transmitting on the marine frequencies. They're different and need a different kind of licence.

The same goes with CB - a marine or air-band licence doesn't do you any good for CB because it's a different kind of radio system. The only difference is that to use a proper CB radio you don't need to sit any exams or get any licences, it's all covered under this "class licence" system.

So providing you buy a CB radio, that has those 40 (or 80) channels, can't be reprogrammed, can't operate on anything other than those defined channels, and meets the other requirements of the CB Radio Class Licence, then you're good to go. Just buy the radio, turn it on and start talking.

Other kinds of radios have different rules though (and that's why these programmable ones you were originally looking at aren't allowed because they come under different rules to CB).
Nosferatu wrote:I'm not a CB user myself and I don't have any CB radio so perhaps other members can correct me if I mistakenly typed any misleading information
You're pretty spot on! :)
Nosferatu wrote:How about this (from the same shop) ? Did I miss anything in there that's not legal ?

http://www.409shop.com/409shop_product.php?id=102826
vk6hgr wrote:Looks like it probably meets the class license specs and should be ok. Too bad it's only 40 channels though... UHF CBs should really be set up with the new 80 channels these days.
I agree. Danoroth if you want a radio under $100 that's legal for Australian CB, I agree with VK6HGR, there's nothing there that stands out as being a problem other than the fact that the new specifications for CB radio says there's 80 channels and not 40. There wouldn't be any harm in getting one of these, unless someone was transmitting on channel 56 for example, since that radio doesn't have a channel 56 ;)

You could take a look on eBay, but be careful what they're advertising. I've just had a look and there's a heap of radios that are advertised as "CB" but really aren't. Look for the word "programmable" in the description. If it says that or if the picture shows a frequency rather than a channel number, stay far away...

Here's one example that'd probably be OK. A pair of 80-channel UHF CB radios that are NOT programmable to work outside the CB frequencies. I know you said you wanted under $100 but here's two for $144 so that's only $72 each, does that count? :) The down side is that they're only 2W power rather than 5W but all the ones that are advertised on eBay as 5W radios aren't the ones legal to use here...
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Re: Waccom UV5r opinions?

Post by danoroth »

Zebedee wrote:
danoroth wrote:Listen mate, I have never said and never would break federal law, why in the world would I do that?
From the responses you were making, asking "well who's going to catch me then" and stuff like that, it seemed pretty clear to me that you were intending on ignoring the advice you were being given. If I made a wrong assumption about that then I apologise.
I'm just looking for a friend decent radio at a price under $100
You're right, you're probably not going to find one, because none of the radio manufacturers seem to be too worried about making CB radios for use in Australia. Why? Because we're such a small market. Those FRS radios that you were originally looking at, you're going to get a much greater number of people buying those from the US because their population is many times ours. So there's more of an incentive to make them cheaper as you're going to sell more. But here in Australia, the number of CB radios being sold are going to be only a small percentage of radios that you could potentially sell in the US. So what do you (as a manufacturer) do? You either don't bother making radios compatible with Australian CB, or you charge a higher price to offset the cost of making radios for this market that are different from other markets. The exact same thing happens with all sorts of other goods. Anything where Australian conditions or specifications are different, it translates to either lower availability or higher cost.
and earlier I said the government IS ripping everyone off trying to buy a CB radio, the government makes only one kind of radio legal to be operated, and gives stores the advantage to sell them for a ridiculous price, and for a CRAP range.
No, that answer is just as silly today as it was when you said it the other day. It doesn't matter how many times you say such a thing, it's still wrong. The Australian government doesn't set the prices, the manufacturers and retailers do. They don't make "only one kind of radio legal to be operated", they publish a list of specifications and say "your radios must do this and this and not do this and this". Any manufacturer is welcome to make and sell radios that comply with those conditions as cheaply or as expensively as they want. The government has no say in any of that other than the original specifications. And this isn't something "different" that the Australian government is doing. The governments of every other country in the world are doing exactly the same thing. The FCC which is the US government body that regulates the radiofrequency spectrum in the US has conditions very similar to ours for these FRS radios. It's not some new scam that the Australian government has dreamed up, just to make our lives harder.
danoroth wrote:Well i received it today, literally just then and ALL the other buyers in Australia said they use them between the 2 CB radios and have had no worries, for about 5 years.
But they are breaking the law and eventually when it catches up to them, they'll have the radios confiscated off them at the very minimum and get a fine and or prison time as a maximum.
But i AM taking all you's knowledge and really am not going to use these, thank you for your help.
That's good to know! :)
Also i want to know, how old you have to be to get a CB license and where from?
There is no longer any such thing as a "CB licence" for an individual. So you can't get one. As Nosferatu says, CB operates under a "class licence" which means "providing the radio you buy meets the correct specifications, it's licenced". The same applies to USB wireless LAN dongles for example. They use radio frequencies but you don't need to apply for a licence to plug one into your PC and operate them because they are part of a (different) class licence that says "all these wireless LAN dongles must meet these specifications and if they do then they're licenced".
Annnnnd if any1 knows if there is a ACMA building in Perth WA, and if not. Who even enforces the 'rouge' frequencies in Perth??
The ACMA don't have a physical office in Perth any more. According to this document, they have offices in Canberra, Melbourne and Sydney. But that doesn't mean they don't operate in Perth, it just means they don't rent any office space here. I can prove they operate in Perth because I've had a visit to my house from an ACMA radio inspector and he left a nice little card with his details on it. So yes, they are active here in Perth and everywhere else in the country.

As for who enforces people operating on incorrect frequencies, the ACMA do. They may contract out the actual detection and investigation part to a third party, but when someone is knocking loudly on your door to confiscate radio gear from your house, it'll be a real-life ACMA inspector often with a couple of mean looking Federal police officers along as well.
danoroth wrote:Thanks mate, so if i were to get a license i could use the CB on any channel, within the frequency of the chosen license?
The licence that Nosferatu was mentioning has nothing to do with CB radio, it's something entirely different again. There are some kinds of radio activities that you need to get a licence to do. This usually involves sitting one or more exams.

VHF marine radio for example, you need to sit an exam for and pass a licence. (A bit like how you need a skipper's ticket to operate a boat, you also need to have a radio licence to operate the VHF marine radio on that boat...)

If you work in aviation, you need an air-band licence. So if you're a pilot, as part of your studies to get a pilot's licence, you may also study for and get an air-band radio operator's licence as well.

But if you had a marine licence, you couldn't transmit on the air band frequencies for example, or if you're a pilot you can't go transmitting on the marine frequencies. They're different and need a different kind of licence.

The same goes with CB - a marine or air-band licence doesn't do you any good for CB because it's a different kind of radio system. The only difference is that to use a proper CB radio you don't need to sit any exams or get any licences, it's all covered under this "class licence" system.

So providing you buy a CB radio, that has those 40 (or 80) channels, can't be reprogrammed, can't operate on anything other than those defined channels, and meets the other requirements of the CB Radio Class Licence, then you're good to go. Just buy the radio, turn it on and start talking.

Other kinds of radios have different rules though (and that's why these programmable ones you were originally looking at aren't allowed because they come under different rules to CB).
Nosferatu wrote:I'm not a CB user myself and I don't have any CB radio so perhaps other members can correct me if I mistakenly typed any misleading information
You're pretty spot on! :)
Nosferatu wrote:How about this (from the same shop) ? Did I miss anything in there that's not legal ?

http://www.409shop.com/409shop_product.php?id=102826
vk6hgr wrote:Looks like it probably meets the class license specs and should be ok. Too bad it's only 40 channels though... UHF CBs should really be set up with the new 80 channels these days.
I agree. Danoroth if you want a radio under $100 that's legal for Australian CB, I agree with VK6HGR, there's nothing there that stands out as being a problem other than the fact that the new specifications for CB radio says there's 80 channels and not 40. There wouldn't be any harm in getting one of these, unless someone was transmitting on channel 56 for example, since that radio doesn't have a channel 56 ;)

You could take a look on eBay, but be careful what they're advertising. I've just had a look and there's a heap of radios that are advertised as "CB" but really aren't. Look for the word "programmable" in the description. If it says that or if the picture shows a frequency rather than a channel number, stay far away...

Here's one example that'd probably be OK. A pair of 80-channel UHF CB radios that are NOT programmable to work outside the CB frequencies. I know you said you wanted under $100 but here's two for $144 so that's only $72 each, does that count? :) The down side is that they're only 2W power rather than 5W but all the ones that are advertised on eBay as 5W radios aren't the ones legal to use here...
I won't use them, but today i looked up the channels that are used and their frequencies in the range of the CB radios them self, and there is not 1 place using the frequency or channel associated with the radios them self, so (and don't go through telling me all the laws etc, i already know :P) who will report those on the frequencies?
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Re: Waccom UV5r opinions?

Post by robbage »

Nosferatu wrote:How about this (from the same shop) ? Did I miss anything in there that's not legal ?

http://www.409shop.com/409shop_product.php?id=102826
Ron, that's not a CB. Have a closer look at the image. It's a Feidaxin FD-450A just like this one. It has just been pre-programmed. It's just like all the other not-CBs mentioned in this and the other thread.
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Re: Waccom UV5r opinions?

Post by Zebedee »

danoroth wrote:I won't use them, but today i looked up the channels that are used and their frequencies in the range of the CB radios them self, and there is not 1 place using the frequency or channel associated with the radios them self, so (and don't go through telling me all the laws etc, i already know :P) who will report those on the frequencies?
Not sure which radios you're talking about now (we've been talking about a few different ones over the last week or so...)

If you mean the original FRS ones, some of those frequencies are assigned to other clients. For example FRS channel 1 (462.5625 MHz) is licenced to BHP Billiton. Channel 3 (462.6125 MHz) is registered to Western Power, and so on. The whole 400 MHz region of the radiofrequency spectrum is very congested with a lot of people wanting licences in that space and obviously only a limited number of frequencies that can be allocated. The ACMA was recently doing a review of that entire chunk of radiofrequency spectrum to try and figure out how to use it more efficiently.

For the actual CB Radio frequencies, each individual channel may not have any licences associated with it when you search the ACMA database. That's because under the class licence, it's not limited to any particular person or location, anyone with a radio that complies with the regulations can use it. So if you look at UHFCB channel 10 for example (476.6500MHz), not a single individual licence shows up on the database search. This is entirely normal.

The repeater channels (1-8, 31-38, 41-48 and 71-78) may have licences assigned to them because while individual radios don't need a specific licence, a repeater station does. Take this one for example, which is CB channel 4 repeater for Perth. People using the repeater don't need a licence but the people who build and operate the repeater station do.

Radio licencing is a complex topic as you're probably figuring out, based on all the different "well yes, but no" replies you're getting to your questions! :)
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Re: Waccom UV5r opinions?

Post by Nosferatu »

robbage wrote:
Nosferatu wrote:How about this (from the same shop) ? Did I miss anything in there that's not legal ?

http://www.409shop.com/409shop_product.php?id=102826
Ron, that's not a CB. Have a closer look at the image. It's a Feidaxin FD-450A just like this one. It has just been pre-programmed. It's just like all the other not-CBs mentioned in this and the other thread.

Damn ... You are right ... They just pre-programmed it with Australian CB frequencies and claim it as an Australian CB transceiver ... Cheeky bugger ! And of course you can re-program it in anyway you like ... Hahaha ... :smt103
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Re: Waccom UV5r opinions?

Post by robbage »

Yeah, it's not like they care. They just want a sale. For what it's worth, we have half a dozen of these GME handheld CBs at work and they work very well.
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Re: Waccom UV5r opinions?

Post by Nosferatu »

robbage wrote:Yeah, it's not like they care. They just want a sale. For what it's worth, we have half a dozen of these GME handheld CBs at work and they work very well.
That GME handheld CB looks good and high quality ... but ... Not cheap :-? But I guess you will get what you've paid for ...
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Re: Waccom UV5r opinions?

Post by danoroth »

Zebedee wrote:
danoroth wrote:I won't use them, but today i looked up the channels that are used and their frequencies in the range of the CB radios them self, and there is not 1 place using the frequency or channel associated with the radios them self, so (and don't go through telling me all the laws etc, i already know :P) who will report those on the frequencies?
Not sure which radios you're talking about now (we've been talking about a few different ones over the last week or so...)

If you mean the original FRS ones, some of those frequencies are assigned to other clients. For example FRS channel 1 (462.5625 MHz) is licenced to BHP Billiton. Channel 3 (462.6125 MHz) is registered to Western Power, and so on. The whole 400 MHz region of the radiofrequency spectrum is very congested with a lot of people wanting licences in that space and obviously only a limited number of frequencies that can be allocated. The ACMA was recently doing a review of that entire chunk of radiofrequency spectrum to try and figure out how to use it more efficiently.

For the actual CB Radio frequencies, each individual channel may not have any licences associated with it when you search the ACMA database. That's because under the class licence, it's not limited to any particular person or location, anyone with a radio that complies with the regulations can use it. So if you look at UHFCB channel 10 for example (476.6500MHz), not a single individual licence shows up on the database search. This is entirely normal.

The repeater channels (1-8, 31-38, 41-48 and 71-78) may have licences assigned to them because while individual radios don't need a specific licence, a repeater station does. Take this one for example, which is CB channel 4 repeater for Perth. People using the repeater don't need a licence but the people who build and operate the repeater station do.

Radio licencing is a complex topic as you're probably figuring out, based on all the different "well yes, but no" replies you're getting to your questions! :)
Yeah all you guys are way over your heads, it is illegal to use and operate one of these radios in Australia, but it is ABSOULUTLEY legal to actually own the 'Illegal' CB radios/ Ham or whatever you want to call them. Customs can't and dosen't stop any radio what so ever, the radio communications can be the only ones to stop you, and that's only when you acutally transmit. SO it is legal to own a chineese CB, only illegal to operate with it
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Re: Waccom UV5r opinions?

Post by vk6hgr »

danoroth wrote:
Yeah all you guys are way over your heads, it is illegal to use and operate one of these radios in Australia, but it is ABSOULUTLEY legal to actually own the 'Illegal' CB radios/ Ham or whatever you want to call them. Customs can't and dosen't stop any radio what so ever, the radio communications can be the only ones to stop you, and that's only when you acutally transmit. SO it is legal to own a chineese CB, only illegal to operate with it
Many people think that, but it's just not true. Under the Racomm act, it's not legal to own a radio in Australia that can transmit on a frequency you don't hold a license to use.
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Re: Waccom UV5r opinions?

Post by Zebedee »

danoroth wrote:Yeah all you guys are way over your heads, it is illegal to use and operate one of these radios in Australia, but it is ABSOULUTLEY legal to actually own the 'Illegal' CB radios/ Ham or whatever you want to call them. Customs can't and dosen't stop any radio what so ever, the radio communications can be the only ones to stop you, and that's only when you acutally transmit. SO it is legal to own a chineese CB, only illegal to operate with it
We've been through this before. Over and over and over again.

I really don't understand why you're having trouble understanding plain simple English.

IT IS ILLEGAL TO OWN, POSSESS, USE OR OPERATE ANY RADIO TRANSMITTER IN AUSTRALIA THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE A LICENCE FOR.

No ifs, buts or maybes.

You say it's "absolutely legal to actually own the illegal radios". Which clown told you that? I'm guessing it wasn't a lawyer because if it was they deserve to lose their law licence.

Here is what the ACTUAL LAW says:
Radiocommunications Act 1992 wrote:47 Unlawful possession of radiocommunications devices

(1) Subject to section 49, a person must not have a radiocommunications device in his or her possession for the purpose of operating the device otherwise than as authorised by:
(a) a spectrum licence; or
(b) an apparatus licence; or
(c) a class licence.

Penalty:
(a) if the radiocommunications device is a radiocommunications transmitter:
(i) if the offender is an individual—imprisonment for 2 years; or
(ii) otherwise—1,500 penalty units; or
(b) if the radiocommunications device is not a radiocommunications transmitter—20 penalty units.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply if the person has a reasonable excuse.

Note: A defendant bears an evidential burden in relation to the matter in subsection (2) (see subsection 13.3(3) of the Criminal Code).

48 Additional provisions about possession of radiocommunications devices

(1) Without limiting section 47, a person is taken, for the purposes of that section, to have a radiocommunications device in his or her possession for the purpose of operation if it is in his or her possession, otherwise than for the purpose of supply to another person, and can be operated merely by doing one or more of the following:
(a) connecting the device to an electric power supply by means of an electric plug or other electrical connection;
(b) connecting a microphone to the device by inserting a microphone plug into the device;
(c) switching on the device;
(d) switching on any other equipment relevant to the device’s operation;
(e) adjusting settings by manipulating the device’s external switches, dials or other controls;
(f) connecting the device to an antenna.

(2) Subsection (1) only applies in the absence of any evidence to the contrary.

(3) A reference in this Division to a person having a radiocommunications device in his or her possession includes a reference to the person having it under control in any place whatever, whether for the use or benefit of that person or another person, and although another person has the actual possession or custody of it.
So let's break that down into plain simple English shall we?

Section 47 of the Act says "a person must not have a radiocommunications device in his or her possession" without a licence. Fairly straightforward, yes? YOU MUST NOT HAVE A RADIO IN YOUR POSSESSION. It then says there's a defence if you can show a "reasonable excuse" but it's up to you to prove that the excuse is valid. And "radios from China are cheaper" I can guarantee is NOT a reasonable excuse in the eyes of the law.

Section 48 goes on to define what it means by possession. First it says that owning something with the intent to sell it to someone else is OK. So you can own a radio shop and have stock to sell to people. That's fine. It also says that if it's possible to do any of those things listed from A to F then you are considered to be "in posession" of the radio (which triggers the offence in section 48).

So. If you buy a cheap Chinese radio and you do not have the appropriate licence, you are breaking the law and face 2 years in prison for it. That's what the actual law says, which renders your claim that it's "absolutely" legal to own it as complete crap.

Maybe now you'll finally get a clue and stop wasting people's time with the same tired old arguments over and over again.
Doug Bell (Zebedee) VK6DB
WARSUG Forum Administrator.

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roland985
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Re: Waccom UV5r opinions?

Post by roland985 »

Well, bugger, I've got a UV5R on its way to me right now.

I intended to program it to work on the 80channel UHF CB system.

It only cost $50.


What should I do? Should I just not open the package?

Would it be legal to own if I had a foundation license?

I'll try not to be as bone-headed as the OP here, but I would really appreciate any guidance at this point.
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Re: Waccom UV5r opinions?

Post by vk6hgr »

roland985 wrote:
Would it be legal to own if I had a foundation license?

I'll try not to be as bone-headed as the OP here, but I would really appreciate any guidance at this point.
Yes, you could use it for amateur radio.

The law is pretty clear - it's not type approved so it's not kosher. However*, if it was carefully programmed for CB and set to "memory only" mode then it would work the same as any 80ch CB.


[*] Not a lawyer. Not legal advice.
Gavin Rogers; VK6HGR
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roland985
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Re: Waccom UV5r opinions?

Post by roland985 »

Hmmm, I'll just leave the unit unopened. I do not want to potentially cause interference to anyone.

Using this unit without a license is just blatantly irresponsible. I won't do it.


Thanks anyway. I'll go about getting my foundation before I touch it.
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Re: Waccom UV5r opinions?

Post by Zebedee »

roland985 wrote:Thanks anyway. I'll go about getting my foundation before I touch it.
We can help with that ;)
Doug Bell (Zebedee) VK6DB
WARSUG Forum Administrator.

It is very dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
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