YPJT "emergency"

Reevesy · Post by **Reevesy** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:24 pm

Hey Nafenn, you would happen to be the student at WAAC who declared an emergency, due to "gear failing to extend" when it in fact did extend, would you?

Post by **Nafenn** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:53 pm

Reevesy wrote:Hey Nafenn, you would happen to be the student at WAAC who declared an emergency, due to "gear failing to extend" when it in fact did extend, would you?

nope... im not at WAAC yet

im hoping i will be next year, i can find out who that was tho - i have a mate at WAAC

im supprised it wasnt a Singapore Flight School student *ducks for cover*

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

just received from my mate:

Hi Nathan,

I was the pilot in command but as usual with most of these things the version of events has been totally distorted. I never declared an emergency. In the mooney you have two indications to tell you your gear is down, and the primary one is a light on the main panel which when i went gear down did not come on. I went around on final and asked tower to confirm my gear was down and they said they werent sure, and RACWA staff came out and also relayed to me on twr freq that they werent sure if it was down and locked and that there was concern that the left main wheel wasnt in the locked position. That complicates the situation because youre much better off landing wheels up then 1 up 2 down so we had to make a decision. RACWA decided to call the emergency services and i continued circling until they arrived. Then attempted a landing with gear down all thankfully turned out all was safe. It's these precautions that make aviation safe and anyone who lands without following such precautions whilst putting themself, the aircraft, and their dad in harms way doesnt belong in aviation!

Happy to answer any further questions,
Simon

Post by **Zebedee** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:53 pm

Nafenn wrote:just received from my mate:

Now there's a brilliant example of someone doing the right thing and playing it safe if there's any doubt.

Hats off to Simon I reckon!

Post by **Tyranus** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:30 pm

yep agreed! better safe than sorry.

Reevesy · Post by **Reevesy** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:15 am

Different to what I heard from my 4 mates at WAAC...

He should have conducted a manual gear extension, which he would have been taught how to do, to ensure that it wasnt just a fault with the electrics in the gear. If he had done a manual gear extension he would have known that the gear was down.

In hindsight he could and should have done things better, but hey making mistakes is part of learning and its good to hear the pilot and PAX are ok.

ConstableCare · Post by **ConstableCare** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:21 am

WAAC(ers!) HA!

Post by **Zebedee** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:54 am

Reevesy wrote:Different to what I heard from my 4 mates at WAAC...

He should have conducted a manual gear extension, which he would have been taught how to do, to ensure that it wasnt just a fault with the electrics in the gear. If he had done a manual gear extension he would have known that the gear was down.

In hindsight he could and should have done things better, but hey making mistakes is part of learning and its good to hear the pilot and PAX are ok.

I disagree. It's easy to look back with 20/20 hindsight and pick holes in what people should or shouldn't have done.

But to my way of reading that, he recognised there was a problem, and he did his best to establish that all 3 wheels were locked down. To my point of view, I couldn't think of anything better.

At the end of the day, the aircraft landed safely, on its wheels, and no-one was injured in the process. And surely that's what counts in the end?

Post by **Nafenn** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:57 am

Zebedee wrote:I disagree. It's easy to look back with 20/20 hindsight and pick holes in what people should or shouldn't have done.

But to my way of reading that, he recognised there was a problem, and he did his best to establish that all 3 wheels were locked down. To my point of view, I couldn't think of anything better.

At the end of the day, the aircraft landed safely, on its wheels, and no-one was injured in the process. And surely that's what counts in the end?

Couldent have said it better myself

Reevesy · Post by **Reevesy** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:50 pm

Like the PIC, Simon, had stated there are two ways of telling if the gear successfully extended. One is the primary gear indicator located on the floor, two is the secondary gear indicator located on the panel. Now, the "problem" was that the PIC was using the secondary as the primary means of establishing whether the gear had extended and locked, which is wrong, because during training students are told to use the primary gear indicator on the floor to establish a successful gear extension. The globe on the secondary indicator had blown and he failed to check the primary indicator on the floor....so in reality he didnt do the best he could have to ensure that get was down and locked. Now for those who believe that its unfair for someone such as myself to sit at the computer and pick holes in the course of events, I am qualified and experienced at what I do, which is flying. Pilots need to know what to do in emergencies as they have the lives of many people in their hands and knowing what to do is the difference between people dying and people living. I dont want to sound harsh but when people make mistakes due to ignorance, it affects everyone in the industry to know that we lost a fellow pilot and not to mention, passenger/s was lost. Like I said, we all learn from mistakes and I just hope he learnt from this one.

Also, he would have felt the gear extend and lock as he would have heard a loud whirring noise followed buy a solid clunk.

Post by **Nafenn** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:14 pm

Reevesy wrote:Like the PIC, Simon, had stated there are two ways of telling if the gear successfully extended. One is the primary gear indicator located on the floor, two is the secondary gear indicator located on the panel. Now, the "problem" was that the PIC was using the secondary as the primary means of establishing whether the gear had extended and locked, which is wrong, because during training students are told to use the primary gear indicator on the floor to establish a successful gear extension. The globe on the secondary indicator had blown and he failed to check the primary indicator on the floor....so in reality he didnt do the best he could have to ensure that get was down and locked. Now for those who believe that its unfair for someone such as myself to sit at the computer and pick holes in the course of events, I am qualified and experienced at what I do, which is flying. Pilots need to know what to do in emergencies as they have the lives of many people in their hands and knowing what to do is the difference between people dying and people living. I dont want to sound harsh but when people make mistakes due to ignorance, it affects everyone in the industry to know that we lost a fellow pilot and not to mention, passenger/s was lost. Like I said, we all learn from mistakes and I just hope he learnt from this one.

Also, he would have felt the gear extend and lock as he would have heard a loud whirring noise followed buy a solid clunk.

Thankyou Reevesy, i will forward this onto Simon, and inform you of any responce received.

Reevesy · Post by **Reevesy** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:21 pm

Look, I dont want to seem like a harsh know-it-all, but thats my opinion and this is a public forum. Besides, this is off topic.

P.S. I didnt start this topic, my first post was moved.

Post by **Nafenn** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:22 pm

Reevesy wrote:Look, I dont want to seem like a harsh know-it-all, but thats my opinion and this is a public forum. Besides, this is off topic.

P.S. I didnt start this topic, my first post was moved.

it was moved because it was off topic in the thread it was in

Reevesy · Post by **Reevesy** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:28 pm

Well, sorry I should have PMed you question.

Just reading over the conversation, Ive realised that ive come off a bit harsh. Im sorry.

written_ficton · Post by **written_ficton** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:45 am

Reevesy wrote:Well, sorry I should have PMed you question.

Just reading over the conversation, Ive realised that ive come off a bit harsh. Im sorry.

Morning Reevesy,

Everyone handles a situation differently at the time of an incident.

Everyone on the ground can tell them what they would have done but at the end of the day they were not part of the 'emergency' fair enough you can reflect what you did and think... oh I should have done that

At the end of the day, he got the aircraft on the ground safely, who cares if the firies were put on standby its always better to be safe than sorry

Simon Wright · Post by **Simon Wright** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:01 pm

Hi Guys,

I am Simon. I find it quite astounding the contrast in stories going around and more to the point that not one single person has approached me and asked me what i did or what happened. I'm not sure where anyone is getting there information but i am quite happy to clear it up and answer any questions any body has. I have also written an article for TARMAC TOPICS for all those RACWA members out there which i am hoping will be included in the December 08 issue. By now we all know Sunday my gear light didnt come on. I'm not going to explain the event in full here because i don't think it is necessary. My reaction was first to confirm it was down with the tower. There was speculation on the frequency that the left gear was not in the locked position. I checked the annunciator panel and confirmed the light was off. I DID carry out a manual gear extension which im sure my dad can vouch for as he read out the checklist! The nav light was checked to be off to confirm it wasnt dimming the annunciator panel and most importantly as "Reevesy" mentioned i made sure the mechanical floor alignment was indicating correctly as it was. I relayed all this information to those on the ground and we all agreed it was a blown globe but RACWA called in the emergencies as an extra precaution. If there are any further comments or suggestions, and certainly any questions.. please feel free to ask me personally!

Regards,
Simon Wright