police pursuit cars - V8?

[Admin]

Hi everyone.

I'd like to see a continuation of the discussion from
http://warsug.info/viewtopic.php?t=945 specifically from page 3 or so about pursuit vehicles as I personally found it a very interesting and engaging discussion.

I've unlocked the original thread to allow ease of quoting from there into here and moved it to general as it's about the police but not about police scanning. If you're not interested in police vehicles then this isn't the thread for you

Lets start again folks and lets keep the discussion on topic. Lets talk about the police priority vehicles themselves.

None of us should be talking about if it's "fair" that a police vehicle travel at a certain speed with lights/sirens or none, regardless of what the job is heard to be over the radio, as we just don't have the full information and quite frankly it's the duty of the officer driving the vehicle. Lets debate without 'ripping shreads' either into each other or most of all the WA Police to whom we all owe a debt of gratitude for their hard work in this state.

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Now if a police officer found himself chasing a high powered vehicle does he get an advantage from driving a V8 just to keep up with speed or are 'tactics' such as stingers and road blocks more important than raw speed...?

[vk6hgr]

Any pursuit that involved a bend or tight turn is going to be best handled in a STi or Evo. Then a 6. Then an 8.

Is this the reason why some eastern states' police have WRXs or just for their higher max speed?

[vk6hgr]

However how many times have you heard a pursuit head to The Tonkin, The Roe, even The Reid as well as the Fwys where the Police Vehicle has been unable to get even close.

Many of the pursuits I've heard going down the highways have ended positively with the suspect's vehicle being stingered up the road a bit, so having the "catch up" power might not be as important.

It's funny to watch "Motorway patrol" like TV programs from European countries. They give their police there such terrible little cars (4 cylinder!) in countries where road legal sports cars are, well, more available than over here. They seem to do ok...

Maybe they'd like V8s over there but just can't afford the fuel!

[Walks]

At the end of the day for example, unless you are chasing someone from the start to the end of the Nullabor the SV6 (or any V6 supercharged vehicle) is a better choice. They are lighter, use less fuel, they weigh less which of course means they handle better in emergency driving, they cost less, and are much quicker then a V8 for acceleration. The one and only advantage of the Police going to V8 is the top end power which I believe is an advantage they would never need.

The SV6 will never be quicker than the V8. NEVER. I drive the SV6 and am the owner of a V8 VY. Yes, the SV6 is better than the executive, heaps better. So you ask whats the difference.

Remember we are not talking about driving the thing around a race track. It is being driven on the road, encountering all the hazards that go with that, stop signs, red lights, bends, bumps, kerbs.....the list goes on.

With the V8, the vehicle could be driven by the driver at say 80% if you know what I mean. Having the extra power allows you to 'catch up' whilst safely navigating hazards. With the lower powered Sv6 (to a lesser extent) or execs, the driver is forced to 'take it to the limit' to maintain the same outcome of a pursuit.

I am not saying that the WRX and other models would not be up to the task. Sure I would love to hammer around (sorry - work) in a WRX....BUT....many other factors come into play.

Cost, safety, practicality is another. We carry ALOT of shit in our cars....and we are not 5' 5 and weigh 60kgs. Comfort is a big thing when its your office for 8hrs a day.

WAP will continue to seek and trial other vehicles to todays issue.

Sorry for the long post.

Walks.

[danny]

Hey guys, good forum you have happening here

Hey Walks, how are you long time no chat!

Totally agree with Walks on this one, nothing will replace the torque of a V8.

Regards

Sandgroper

[Zebedee]

Cost, safety, practicality is another. We carry ALOT of shit in our cars....and we are not 5' 5 and weigh 60kgs. Comfort is a big thing when its your office for 8hrs a day.

Cheers for that Walks - that brings a more realistic perspective to just looking at the raw numebrs of engine power etc.

Being someone who's not small myself, I know what it's like sitting in my Falcon compared to my mate's Excel. I know where I'd rather be if I was going to be there for eight hours at a time

[CHEV4EVR]

as Walks said main issue is the catch up. This applies equally to both a pursuit situation and a highway patrol using mobile radar. The beauty of having V8 in say a highway situation is that you have to spend far less time at high speed going after a motorist you have done a u turn for.

For the most part both the V6 and V8 have similar top ends, to be honest anything over 200kph is fast enough. The issue here is not top end speed but rather how you get to an optimum catch up speed. A V6 will do the speeds neccesary to catch up but you need to spend too long at that speed and you don't have much to play with in the acceleration stakes should you need to get past other vehicles.

On saying that the SV6 is a very capable car. The jewel in this car is the 5 speed auto that senses the driving behaviour of the vehicle and adjusts its changes accordingly. For around the metro area the SV6 is far more capable (and quicker) than the old 5 litres. As an overall package the SV6 is far better than the VT gen 3's we had, taking into consideration brakes and transmission.

As for WRX's, nice, but too small both for the stuff we carry and going up against most of the cars that are stolen. The size of the WRX tends to make the crooks want to rub panels and if they are in a Commodore I know who will come out on top..

[CHEV4EVR]

Now if a police officer found himself chasing a high powered vehicle does he get an advantage from driving a V8 just to keep up with speed or are 'tactics' such as stingers and road blocks more important than raw speed...?

I forgot to add in my first post about this but I think the raw speed part is covered fairly well.

Tactics and driving ability are the main advantage we have over the crooks. I think this shows in the number of crooks caught that are driving far superior cars. Now driving ability doesn't relate to be being a race car driver but the ability to outhink a baddie.

Just because they have a superior car doesn't mean he has the edge. I have caught R1 Yamahas and V12 Mercedes but at the same time been outdone by VL Commodores and 250cc road bikes. Luck always plays a part but if you can think ahead and think calmly then the battle is half one.

Now to step down off the soap box...

[danny]

Now if a police officer found himself chasing a high powered vehicle does he get an advantage from driving a V8 just to keep up with speed or are 'tactics' such as stingers and road blocks more important than raw speed...?

I forgot to add in my first post about this but I think the raw speed part is covered fairly well.

Tactics and driving ability are the main advantage we have over the crooks. I think this shows in the number of crooks caught that are driving far superior cars. Now driving ability doesn't relate to be being a race car driver but the ability to outhink a baddie.

Just because they have a superior car doesn't mean he has the edge. I have caught R1 Yamahas and V12 Mercedes but at the same time been outdone by VL Commodores and 250cc road bikes. Luck always plays a part but if you can think ahead and think calmly then the battle is half one.

Now to step down off the soap box...

Good post Chevy

My only comment to add is, always depends who you are chasing

A career car thief will normally know where they want to head to in a chase and where (if they can) they want to dump the car

A person caught speeding, or pissed, will run from Police in a split second decision meaning that they normally wont have a plan on what roads they want to get to or drive down to get away.

Thats the advantage Police have over alot of drivers in being they decide where they want to go and if they cant drive then all the errors they make, gives Police more time to catch up or set up a stinger etc.

Racing up to an intersection and deciding which way to go is most likely going to end in a.) a crash b.) 100 meters of brake skids or c.) sideways action or all of a, b and c. !

either way gives Police more time

[Tom]

G'day CHEV4EVA,

Would I be right in assuming that SV6's are only to be driven by qualified pursuit driver's? I'm sure that the sticker I saw whilst in D7 said something along those lines.

Of recent I have seen lots of newbies driving the TEG car's, surely they can't be qualified driver's straight out of the Academy?

What about phantom black Holden Adventura 190kw wagons at MIG's, would they be a good option over SV6's? I know they have higher ground clearance and it would be easier to carry your steel lock-boxes..I saw one today at Holden in Osborne Park and it got me wondering.

cheers

Tom

[danny]

G'day CHEV4EVA,

Would I be right in assuming that SV6's are only to be driven by qualified pursuit driver's? I'm sure that the sticker I saw whilst in D7 said something along those lines.

Of recent I have seen lots of newbies driving the TEG car's, surely they can't be qualified driver's straight out of the Academy?

Tom

To engage in UDD you must be qualified, the proby constables are on the booze bus and get to drive them when there on day shift for laser actions etc

They are not allowed to engage in Pursuits.

Hope that clears that up

[Zebedee]

Tactics and driving ability are the main advantage we have over the crooks. I think this shows in the number of crooks caught that are driving far superior cars. Now driving ability doesn't relate to be being a race car driver but the ability to outhink a baddie.

The posts above this are all well thought out and sensible explanations of the thinking that goes behind car selection. There's a lot more to it than is immediately obvious, that's for sure!

I like the comment about the tactics and driving ability though - how many times have us scanner enthusiasts listened to a pursuit where the baddie gets completely lost and ends up going round the same streets again and again.

Or we have the kids too young to get a licence but think they can drive because they can thrash a virtual car around on a Playstation or XBox How quickly they find that there's no magic reset button on the real cars!

...the proby constables are on the booze bus...

You know you're getting old when you go through a booze bus and all the coppers are younger than you are

It makes me chuckle though - "Welcome to the WA Police. Congratulations on becoming a constable. Now you get to stand out in the middle of a dark street, at night, in the rain, freezing your bollocks off. Have fun!"

[TheDoc]

LOL

[danny]

It makes me chuckle though - "Welcome to the WA Police. Congratulations on becoming a constable. Now you get to stand out in the middle of a dark street, at night, in the rain, freezing your bollocks off. Have fun!"

Yeah but with that builds character, not only that but being on the booze buss means they have the ability to speak to hundreds of customers a night, and with speaking to that many people, they can only build confidence within themselves

[blade]

danny......would you have been known as dannyr1 at some stage on another forum