New P-Plater Rules . . .

[Zebedee]

The Propositions:

Actually the recommendations the Government adopted were a little different to what the Road Safety Council originally proposed... Here's what the actual changes are going to be, based on this media release...

* night-time driving restrictions for provisional drivers in the first six months of their P-period;

• I don't agree with this idea. I think the marjority of P Plate drivers do the right thing and this is punishing everybody for the misbehaviour of a few.
  
  The restrictions from memory were to be from midnight to 6am. Since a new driver can't be on the road for eight out of the twenty four hours in a day, do they get a reduction on their vehicle, drivers and insurance fees for that period of time?

* peer passenger restrictions for provisional drivers in the first six months of their P-period;

• I also disagree with this. There is a clear case of mixed messages being put forward with this proposal. For years there have been campaigns to get people to adopt a skipper if a group of people are going out and having a drink. This restriction will mean that every new driver has to drive themselves, putting more cars on the road and stopping everyone from being able to have a drink.
  
  It would also stop a Year 12 student from taking his/her younger siblings to school meaning that the Year 12 student would have to drive him/herself and mum/dad would have to drive the others. Where's the logic in that?

* zero BAC limit for learner and provisional drivers;

• I'm happy with the 0.02 BAC limits that are already in place however since that limit is so low that one standard drink means a new driver can't get behind the wheel for at least an hour, I don't see this new limit being too big an issue...

* graduated demerit point system and warning letters;

• I have no issues with the idea of provisional drivers being allowed a lesser number of demerit points before losing their licence. For the majority of drivers who do the right thing, it will have no noticeable effect. For those who choose to treat the roads as their own personal racetrack, it will get them off the roads quicker

* six months' minimum on the Phase Two Learner period;

• This idea has some merit. I'm a big believer in gaining as much experience as you can before you take your test and head out on your own... I don't think asking any learner (young or old) to spend six months learning the skills and gaining experience is too much to ask...

* learner's permit to be valid for three years (instead of one) without renewal fee; and

• This one's a very good idea. With a one-year learners permit, there's pressure to pass the test in as short a time as possible so you don't have to pay more money to extend your permit. By making it three years, people might be more inclined to take a bit more time and get it right ... maybe.

* tightened requirements for supervisory drivers, including zero Blood Alcohol Concentration (BAC) limit.

• This one's an interesting one - as a fully licenced driver in charge of a vehicle I can have a BAC of up to 0.05, but when supervising a learner I have to have the same BAC as the learner? I'm sitting on the fence on this one - I can see why it's been adopted, but I'm not sure if it makes any practical sense...

I couldn't find anywhere that mentioned the 125 hours logbook or the restriction on V8 engines in the actual recommendations that were adopted. The Road Safety Council may have proposed them originally but it looks like they didn't make it into the changes this time around. I think Victoria has an engine restriction though...

As well as the above changes, there's another scheme being run that ties in nicely - if a new driver completes their probationary period without any traffic infringements, they get one year's free licence (worth about $30-$35 from memory) when they next renew.

The page describing the Safe Driver Reward Scheme is here...

[jmmw]

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[kellie]

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[connor]

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[Spartan]

seems to me that all the new laws are only for the purpose of tightenig up restrictions in response to the abundance of youth deaths in cars, and it's not a bad thing at all. Too many young people die on our roads period. Now true it's mostly their own fault for being stupid and it's possibly what these new laws try to rectify, that is, car control, driving properly, and more supervision beforre you are let loose on the world. And while we all know a p-plater that drives well, the majority, unfortunately, don't. Not can't but don't. Usually to try an be heros or whatever reason, so how do you combat this?
I passenger only seems like it might be a good start, and nighttime curfews seem good as well. I don't know about a lot of people here, but getting woken up at all hours cause of some wanker on their P's trying to be a hero gets a little frustrating. Point is, if you look at the laws individually, they are all designed to prevent death. At least the government cares enough to change it.

[vk6hgr]

Too many young people die on our roads period. Now true it's mostly their own fault for being stupid

I agree.

However much of the bans I think have to do with someone analysing statistics without really looking at the causes. "Hmm, P players have an x % more likelyhood of having an accident at night. I know, lets ban P platers driving at night!"

In my opinion our driver licensing system is totally inadequate. We treat drivers licenses as a rite of passage rather than an earned privilige.

There are too many drivers on our roads who did their test in their teens and the rules have changed since then, or have simply forgotten due to bad habits. The driving test really isn't all that comprehensive anyway. The logbook system made it a bit better but for real training it should be done in a variety of vehicles in a wide range of conditions (and with passengers!)

Similar to my arguments against the "speed kills" rehtoric there are many factors which come in to play when driving which seem to be completely forgotten by our lawmakers. Road accidents are not caused by speed and/or level of driver ability only. Other factors such as driver experience with the weight and power of vehicle, the roadworthiness of that vehicle, the condition of the road, appropriateness of the speed limit - too fast or too slow, weather, other drivers' mistakes, accident and emergency handling play a big (in my opinion, more important) role.

[Zebedee]

I disagree with the "most P Platers are bad" generalisation. From all the driving I do, the majority of P Platers I encounter are generally not causing that much of a fuss. Many of them still have stuff to learn that will make them better drivers, but that's true of anything related to experience...

The problem is, a P Plater doing something stupid is very noticeable. The ones who are just driving around minding their own business are more or less invisible. I suspect there's a fair number of probationary drivers who choose not to display their P Plates because they are sick of being tarred with the same brush as the idiots.

In an average drive to or from work, people pass me at speeds considerably over the limit, they tailgate, they don't have the foggiest idea how to indicate when entering or leaving a roundabout, they drive towards me with their high beams on, they talk on the phone, they put on their make-up, they change lanes without warning, they sit right in my blind spot, they close up a gap if they see someone trying to change lanes, they read a map book or any one of a hundred other things. The vast majority of cars that do these things are driven by people my age, not by P Platers.

Perhaps one of our police members can refresh my memory on this but back in the late 70's or early 80's, were there separate traffic police that were part of the RTA? For some reason I have an idea that there were, but they got merged into the WA Police at some point.

As well as better training of new drivers, what I'd like to see is better traffic enforcement by the police. However to be able to do this there would need to be a substantially increased presence of police on the roads.

The police we've got at the moment do the best they can with the resources they have so please don't take my previous comment as any kind of criticism

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd be willing to pay a bit more tax to see more dedicated traffic police who are on the roads making sure that people are doing the right thing ...

[Millsy]

I think P Platers are a hell of alot more noticable when doing stupid things on the roads due to the lil red P with the white box. there's just as many if not more idiots who aren't on the P's doing stupid things on our roads... it just isn't as noticable...

[Zebedee]

I think P Platers are a hell of alot more noticable when doing stupid things on the roads due to the lil red P with the white box. there's just as many if not more idiots who aren't on the P's doing stupid things on our roads... it just isn't as noticable...

And to go off topic for just a moment - what's with the white P on a red background that some cars are showing? I think it's what they use in one of the eastern states but I'm guessing that it doesn't count as a "valid" P Plate in WA?

[earmuff man]

let me say this.. THANK GOD I HAVE MY BLUE L'S ALREADY!

[Zebedee]

let me say this.. THANK GOD I HAVE MY BLUE L'S ALREADY!

What are they?

[Tom]

i mean weve all seen the tool who just got his P's thrashing out Mums bog stock Magna (sorry Magna drivers)

connor,

Feel free to take the piss out of Magna drivers until your little hearts content.

pinkbosseslady (Damien) used to drive a white Magna wagon and he did that exact same thing...

What about all these tossers that drive around with their front fog lights on on a perfectly clear night and those folk that tamper with their front number-plates and throw white paint on them and bend them etc etc...to avoid speed cameras..

Where's TE705 hiding?

rgds

Tommy Tool

[pinkbosseslady]

Still drive a white magna its going strong, dont know about the thrashing part,

[Kinetic]

And to go off topic for just a moment - what's with the white P on a red background that some cars are showing? I think it's what they use in one of the eastern states but I'm guessing that it doesn't count as a "valid" P Plate in WA?

It is legal - It can white on red or red on white.

Red on white is just more 'standard'

[westernwedgey]

Perhaps one of our police members can refresh my memory on this but back in the late 70's or early 80's, were there separate traffic police that were part of the RTA? For some reason I have an idea that there were, but they got merged into the WA Police at some point.

Absolutely correct Zebedee, the "Road Traffic Authority" was a seperate arm to the "WA Police Force". It was set up in the late 70's to administer and enforce the Road Traffic Act and was then disbanded a few years later. I can still remember the famous "Mickey Mouse Ears" beacons only outdone by the horrible RTA decals for the vehicles.