Uniden UBCD396T - and trunking

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Comint
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Re: Uniden UBCD396T - and trunking

Post by Comint »

Most Biscom Sites broadcast "Vote now advice" messages.

I would like to know what Ch: and SYS: numbers are been broadcast in these messages from the QV1 Site.

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yorky
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Re: Uniden UBCD396T - and trunking

Post by yorky »

Sure I'll keep an eye out, is that always broadcast on the control channel?

Also for those especially with this scanner model, I'm now looking into the Joondalup/Wanneroo Motorola trunks but haven't received any comms from them yet. Is anyone able to tell me exactly what should be setup for them, and which ones are known to be active (I listed them on the first page)?
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Comint
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Re: Uniden UBCD396T - and trunking

Post by Comint »

yorky wrote:Sure I'll keep an eye out, is that always broadcast on the control channel?
Yes. On Biscom systems I have monitored, one is broadcast approximately every 31 seconds, if there is no other traffic, and they normally look like this:-

16:20:50 - BCAST| Vote now advice | Ch: 163 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0031
16:21:21 - BCAST| Vote now advice | Ch: 134 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0039
16:21:52 - BCAST| Vote now advice | Ch: 163 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0031

Although you may have to select it under Filters.

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yorky
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Re: Uniden UBCD396T - and trunking

Post by yorky »

Ok here is what I've got:

20:56:15 ******* TrunkView :: MPT1327 Protocol Decoder ------ Saturday 2011-01-29 ********
ID: 0049 | Biscom - QV1 | Cch Frequency: 415.92500 MHz
*****************************************************************************************
20:57:10 - BCAST| Vote now advice | Ch: 65 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0009
20:57:26 - BCAST| Vote now advice | Ch: 19 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0011
20:57:42 - BCAST| Vote now advice | Ch: 15 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0021
20:57:58 - BCAST| Vote now advice | Ch: 18 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0051
20:58:14 - BCAST| Vote now advice | Ch: 65 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0009
20:58:30 - BCAST| Vote now advice | Ch: 19 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0011
20:58:46 - BCAST| Vote now advice | Ch: 15 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0021

21:58:53 - BCAST| Vote now advice | Ch: 18 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0051
21:59:09 - BCAST| Vote now advice | Ch: 65 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0009
21:59:25 - BCAST| Vote now advice | Ch: 19 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0011
21:59:41 - BCAST| Vote now advice | Ch: 15 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0021
21:59:57 - BCAST| Vote now advice | Ch: 18 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0051
22:00:13 - BCAST| Vote now advice | Ch: 65 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0009

etc :)
"VKI, NJ050 will you be attending the job?"
"Negative VKI, my desk is bolted to the floor".
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Comint
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Re: Uniden UBCD396T - and trunking

Post by Comint »

yorky wrote: 20:57:10 - BCAST| Vote now advice | Ch: 65 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0009
20:57:26 - BCAST| Vote now advice | Ch: 19 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0011
20:57:42 - BCAST| Vote now advice | Ch: 15 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0021
20:57:58 - BCAST| Vote now advice | Ch: 18 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0051
Thanks very much for that. According to my calculations, those equate to:-

Ch: 65 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0009 - 416.3750 - Neerabup
Ch: 19 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0011 - 415.8000 - Trigg
Ch: 15 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0021 - 415.7500 - Scarborough
Ch: 18 Ser No: 0 SYS: 0051 - 415.7875 - Naval Base Rental Site

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yorky
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Re: Uniden UBCD396T - and trunking

Post by yorky »

Cool, is that of any use to us?
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Re: Uniden UBCD396T - and trunking

Post by Comint »

yorky wrote:Cool, is that of any use to us?
Probably only if you are trying to identify the SysID and Control Channel of other Sites in the Network. Only Sites within "reception range" of the Current Site, are broadcast in those messages. This may be up to 40 or 50 km in Rural areas, but limited to 5 or 6 km in Metropolitan areas.

The "Vote now advice" message is telling the Mobiles to compare the signal strength of the specified Channel, with the signal strength of the current Control Channel, and if it is stronger, then they move to the new Channel. If the signal strength is the same or less, then they stay on the current Channel. Each Mobile makes it own decision, hence "Vote".

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yorky
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Re: Uniden UBCD396T - and trunking

Post by yorky »

So could the same voice be suddenly on another Biscom site, or even broadcast throughout the Biscom sites?
"VKI, NJ050 will you be attending the job?"
"Negative VKI, my desk is bolted to the floor".
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Comint
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Re: Uniden UBCD396T - and trunking

Post by Comint »

yorky wrote:So could the same voice be suddenly on another Biscom site, or even broadcast throughout the Biscom sites?
Yes. But a bit of an explanation (not too long winded, I hope).

A business has to pay for access to each Site they need to use. Some businesses might only need access to one Site, whereas others may need access to many Sites.

I can't speak for Biscom rates, but from memory, Telstra Fleetcoms has rates for:-
a single Site,
2 to 5 Sites,
all Sites in 1 State,
any 2 States, and finally
National (all Sites throughout Australia)

So, calls could be heard throughout a Network, but only if it is a Group Call, and at least one Mobile is Registered on each Site. If it is an Individual Call, then the Call is only heard on the two Sites involved.

One annoying thing about Individual Calls across two Sites, is that you only hear one side of the conversation through your local Site. The TSC (Trunking System Controller) is smart enough to know that the second party is at another Site, and therefore can't hear the local Site, so it doesn't broadcast the local caller's side of the conversation on the local Site, but only on the distant Site. You only hear the conversation of the distant Mobile, on the local Site.

And Yes, even during a 3 minute Call, it is possible to see at least one Mobile move from one Site to another.

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yorky
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Re: Uniden UBCD396T - and trunking

Post by yorky »

Ok, well I don't think I've 'missed' any conversations that I've noticed in the Stirling Security example, so I don't know if I can assume that they only use the QVI site. SCARBOROUGH and TRIGG are near their area, so its possible that they could be using those sites? Do you have any details on those sites?

Also I don't think I've mentioned it here apart from the 800Mhz Wanneroo/Joondalup Trunks, but there is also a Wanneroo trunk with I believe these frequencies and I finally heard some activity on one of them and the data sound during the voice sounded exactly like the MPT trunk sounds:

417.6875
417.1875
416.6875
416.1875 Heard voice on this.

Do you think or have info on this trunk at all as well?
"VKI, NJ050 will you be attending the job?"
"Negative VKI, my desk is bolted to the floor".
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Comint
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Re: Uniden UBCD396T - and trunking

Post by Comint »

yorky wrote:SCARBOROUGH and TRIGG are near their area, so its possible that they could be using those sites? Do you have any details on those sites?
See above posts for CC and SysID.

. . but there is also a Wanneroo trunk with I believe these frequencies and I finally heard some activity on one of them and the data sound during the voice sounded exactly like the MPT trunk sounds:

417.6875
417.1875
416.6875
416.1875 Heard voice on this.

Do you think or have info on this trunk at all as well?
Licensed to City of Waneroo - believed to be MPT1327 at Waneroo. Also has a frequency of 415.6875 MHz. Don't know which is the CC.

There is supposed to be another City of Waneroo MPT1327 Site at Yanchep with frequencies of:-

415.9375, 416.4375, 416.9375, 417.4375

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yorky
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Re: Uniden UBCD396T - and trunking

Post by yorky »

415.6875 was what I was missing, it is the control channel :)

Any idea what the base frequency would be? And can I assume 12.5Khz step? It comes up ID 3089 when I listen to the CC would that also be correct? Thanks!
"VKI, NJ050 will you be attending the job?"
"Negative VKI, my desk is bolted to the floor".
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Comint
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Re: Uniden UBCD396T - and trunking

Post by Comint »

yorky wrote:415.6875 was what I was missing, it is the control channel :)

Any idea what the base frequency would be? And can I assume 12.5Khz step? It comes up ID 3089 when I listen to the CC would that also be correct? Thanks!
I have the Base Frequency as 415.5625 MHz.
Most MPT1327 networks in Australia, are 12.5 kHz Step.

I only have a partial SysID of 30--, so it seems you're on the right track.

FWIW - When the ACMA assign Trunked Radio frequencies in the 400 MHz Band, they tend to issue them in blocks of 5, spaced 40 channels apart, although not all Sites use all 5 frequencies.

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yorky
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Re: Uniden UBCD396T - and trunking

Post by yorky »

Awesome, I have it sitting on the control channel but no voice channels have opened up yet (the only glimmer of hope was hearing a conversation last night after accidentally accessing the direct frequency).

Do you know much about these 800Mhz Motorola trunks? The frequency's I listed on the first page don't seem to be netting anything so far, but I don't know if I've put them into the scanner correctly. I've set both up them up as a Motorola 800Mhz Type II and put the frequencies in, but not sure if I should hear data noise on any channel when listening to them individually either, and if the scanner will just find a Talk Group that activates and off it goes...
"VKI, NJ050 will you be attending the job?"
"Negative VKI, my desk is bolted to the floor".
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Comint
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Re: Uniden UBCD396T - and trunking

Post by Comint »

yorky wrote:Awesome, I have it sitting on the control channel but no voice channels have opened up yet (the only glimmer of hope was hearing a conversation last night after accidentally accessing the direct frequency).
Well, it is listed as "City of Wanneroo", so my guess is that the majority of traffic will be during normal business hours.

Do you know much about these 800Mhz Motorola trunks? The frequency's I listed on the first page don't seem to be netting anything so far, but I don't know if I've put them into the scanner correctly. I've set both up them up as a Motorola 800Mhz Type II and put the frequencies in, but not sure if I should hear data noise on any channel when listening to them individually either, and if the scanner will just find a Talk Group that activates and off it goes...
In one sense, Motorola Smartnet (Motorola Type II) is just like MPT1327, it has a continuous data-stream on the Control Channel.

I believe the 86x.4375 frequencies are at Yanchep.

You might have to go back through the archives, for comments about the City of Wanneroo 800 MHz Sites.

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